**Official** West Indies in England 2012

[Scaly piscine]

Hmm I'm surprised people keep bringing up this stuff about Gayle not having played a defensive shot for years. For those who've watched in the IPL he plays a proper cricket innings really - he plays it intelligently. First 3-4 overs he defends the good balls and hammers anything else. He then has more of a go in the last two overs of the powerplay - usually when there's a weaker bowler on. After the restrictions are lifted he does the same except he tries to get singles off the reasonable deliveries. He plays high percentage shots, he doesn't slog and pre-meditate. The reason he scores so quickly is because he keeps his shape, stays in so he's spending a higher proportion of his T20 career 'set' rather than quick cameos and of course he's incredibly strong so he can simply dump bad deliveries into the stands. Particularly straight short of a length balls from spinners - him and KP are the only ones I've seen regularly hit those for 6. His average in T20 for the past two years would be excellent in any format of the game.

Whilst a lot of that won't translate into Test cricket, in a lot of situations he would be very dangerous. He will also take the pressure off the batsman at the other end. He's not going to turn the batting lineup into world-beaters, but he'll make them stronger. Psychologically he might also help West Indies believe they can win, although Gayle himself seems to be a bit of a curse to the T20 teams he joins, but he certainly has a presence.

Narine joining West Indies will be the key though as I say.

 

[tooextracool]

Any chance of Gayle and Narine getting a gig in the third test? I'd imagine that there would be many in the WI management calling for the heads of the openers and Shillingford...

Bit pointless to go through the effort dont you think? Barring a miracle tomorrow, the series would be lost by the time the 3rd test rolls around. Might as well stick with the current squad and see if any of the youngsters are worth their salt.

 

[kyear2]

Kirk Edwards needs to be dropped before his confidence is destroyed. We have N.Z in a couple of weeks at home and if he is to a part of the future, he needs a chance to get his head and technique into order.
We need Gayle and Narine, Russell too would probably help but tired of people mentioning Dwayne Bravo in that group. Dwayne is not a quality Test batsman and not much better a bowler than Sammy, and they are basically the same player. So no need for both of them in the same test side.
The job of openers is to protect the middle order and Powell and Barath, while both have some talent, haven't done that their entire careers, and its time for one or both to go, at least for now. Don't know the status for Lendl Simmons, and not saying he is that much better, but we have to at least try something else as the status quo simply cannot be allowed to continue as is. Sammuels needs to suck it up and bat at 3 to separate the inexperience, while Chanderpaul just bats for himself any way so he will bat where ever he pleases.
This series is already lost, but thats no reason not to bring in some reinforments to at least salvage some Pride, if they still know what that is. Sammy is a good cheer leader in chief, but his bowling is still too weak to be our 3rd seamer, so either he needs to bat at 6 (which i still don't think he can) or take one for the team. Russell is a better bolwer, Gabriel looks like one for the future and Fidel, Rampaul and Roach when one can still bowl out a side. Add any three of them to Narine and we would at least have a good bowling attack, and the batting with the propper players can only improve.

Go Windies !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[stumpski]

Always good to watch the highlights when you've been out all day and have no idea what happened.

Weren't there only a couple of overs left when Edwards went in? I know he was down the order anyway, but the situation was crying out for the night-watchman. Got a day off tomorrow and looks as if I'll have to find something else to do from about mid-day.

And good lord, Sky Football News are leading on the cricket tonight.

 

[Burgey]

The disappointing thing is the names might change, but the Windies have produced these shambolic collapses for years now.

 

[AndyZaltzHair]

Hmm I'm surprised people keep bringing up this stuff about Gayle not having played a defensive shot for years. For those who've watched in the IPL he plays a proper cricket innings really - he plays it intelligently. First 3-4 overs he defends the good balls and hammers anything else. He then has more of a go in the last two overs of the powerplay - usually when there's a weaker bowler on. After the restrictions are lifted he does the same except he tries to get singles off the reasonable deliveries. He plays high percentage shots, he doesn't slog and pre-meditate. The reason he scores so quickly is because he keeps his shape, stays in so he's spending a higher proportion of his T20 career 'set' rather than quick cameos and of course he's incredibly strong so he can simply dump bad deliveries into the stands. Particularly straight short of a length balls from spinners - him and KP are the only ones I've seen regularly hit those for 6. His average in T20 for the past two years would be excellent in any format of the game.

Whilst a lot of that won't translate into Test cricket, in a lot of situations he would be very dangerous. He will also take the pressure off the batsman at the other end. He's not going to turn the batting lineup into world-beaters, but he'll make them stronger. Psychologically he might also help West Indies believe they can win, although Gayle himself seems to be a bit of a curse to the T20 teams he joins, but he certainly has a presence.

Narine joining West Indies will be the key though as I say.

Have to agree with Scaly here with Gayle issue. He blocks first 4-5 overs and also leaves the ball although it doesn'y necessarily suggest he'd come good in test. I think he played a domestic test very recently and got hundred but not too sure on that

 

[Furball]

Surely Gayle's form in the 3 years prior to his falling out with the board are an indicator of how he'd go?

 

[Cabinet96]

Happy to see Bres do well, even if he was bowling in the mid 70's.

Swann gone apparently.

Anyone here old enough to remember when some folks were saying he should be batting ahead of Broad?

Before Broad's century against Pakistan Swann was batting at 8 with Broad at 9. How things have changed.

clearly Howe_zat's attempts to make a joke fall on deaf ears

Indeed. No idea how such a light hearted, in jest, comment caused accusations of drug addiction.

 

[uvelocity]

shammidammada yimnanamana hyarawaaraa

rain rain rain rain

 

[tooextracool]

Got a couple of batsman who bowl a little in the squad. Must admit I didn't think an awful lot of Deonarine from what I saw on the Aussies' tour and have never seen Fudadin at all, but neither could really do worse than some of the currrent top six.

Plus Nash is averaging 60-odd for Kent...

I think if we were to put names on paper, the most effective WI outfit would be something like this:

Gayle
Nash
Sarwan
Bravo
Chanderpaul
Samuels
Bravo
Ramdin/et al
Roach
Narine
Rampaul

Barath is frustrating because he is as gifted as anyone in the side, but his temperament constantly lets him down. You almost wish that some of these younger players would have the chance to tour abroad with the A team. I dont expect Powell to amount to anything at the test level, I'd even put Braithwaite ahead of him, and Kirk Edwards has an extremely dodgy technique that he needs to go back and work on if he wants to score runs against good fast bowling.

Nash, from what I have seen, is a limited player but at least the kind who would not throw his wicket away without a fight.

Regarding Sammy, you cannot fault his attitude and the fact that he has overachieved in his career but I still don;'t understand how a guy who is in fine physical shape at 28 cannot manage to bowl at 80mph. It is inexcusable, and as much as he deserves credit for what he has done for the WI, the reality is that there is only so long that you can support a guy who is not worthy of his place especially when the team is losing. Dw Bravo doesn't add too much more but he's a better pick if you want someone who adds up to more than the some of his parts.

 

[kyear2]

Would rate Russell ahead of Dw Bravo and Llendl Simmons as an opener before Nash. Would even consider Kraigg again at opener.

 

[Flem274*]

I think if we were to put names on paper, the most effective WI outfit would be something like this:

Gayle
Nash
Sarwan
Bravo
Chanderpaul
Samuels
Bravo
Ramdin/et al
Roach
Narine
Rampaul

Barath is frustrating because he is as gifted as anyone in the side, but his temperament constantly lets him down. You almost wish that some of these younger players would have the chance to tour abroad with the A team. I dont expect Powell to amount to anything at the test level, I'd even put Braithwaite ahead of him, and Kirk Edwards has an extremely dodgy technique that he needs to go back and work on if he wants to score runs against good fast bowling.

Nash, from what I have seen, is a limited player but at least the kind who would not throw his wicket away without a fight.

Regarding Sammy, you cannot fault his attitude and the fact that he has overachieved in his career but I still don;'t understand how a guy who is in fine physical shape at 28 cannot manage to bowl at 80mph. It is inexcusable, and as much as he deserves credit for what he has done for the WI, the reality is that there is only so long that you can support a guy who is not worthy of his place especially when the team is losing. Dw Bravo doesn't add too much more but he's a better pick if you want someone who adds up to more than the some of his parts.

Dropping your third best seamer because they can't bowl as fast as they look like they should - excellent idea.

Nash was a middle order batsman at 5/6 last time he played tests. I like him but he was getting bounced out by James Franklin with the old ball. No way should he open.

 

[Ferraz]

Bravo-Lara comparisons have something missing....

Runs????

 

[Valer]

Make that 26.

Harris // Pattinson average 23.5/19... I don't think your metric is effective.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Dropping your third best seamer because they can't bowl as fast as they look like they should - excellent idea.

Going on to advocate replacing him with a guy with a bowling average approaching 40 - sheer genius.

 

[Arachnodouche]

Bresnan has looked crap for large portions of the last two games. Finn should walk in for the Third; you deprive him of practice before the SA series, and chances are Bresnan is letting you down.

Not surprised seeing the English fans here getting carried away but the top four wickets in every innings so far have been awfully cheap, taken off deliveries that should've been negotiated safely by most decent first-class batsmen. Airy wafts, feet stuck in mud, general incompetency. I'm not sure where the next solid batting order is going to come from, though SA should do fairly OK, but these bowlers are making the most of a pretty **** field.

Just gutted that the Windies have been in potentially interesting positions, and perhaps one match winning one at Lord's, and have continued blowing it all.

 

[Cabinet96]

Harris // Pattinson average 23.5/19... I don't think your metric is effective.

No one in Australia would be saying Harris or Patinson should be dropped when they're having a decent run in the team though.

 

[Jager]

I'm one who believes Bangladesh and Zimbabwe should be held back from test cricket for a few years until they prove themselves more consistently (obviously things are looking quite positive at the moment for Bangladesh though). The scary thing is, I wouldn't bet on WI defeating Bangladesh in a test series, either home or away. Before someone calls me an idiot, I am not saying that WI should lose their test place at all- I am just pointing out that unless improvements are made very, very quickly, they will genuinely be scrapping for credit with the absolute minnows.

 

[Biryani Pillow]

Bresnan has looked crap for large portions of the last two games. Finn should walk in for the Third; you deprive him of practice before the SA series, and chances are Bresnan is letting you down.

Rubbish.

He actually bowled pretty well at Lords, without much luck, if you bothered to watch and not just rely upon the bowling figures.

A game for Finn now would have no relevance when the SA tests start in several weeks time.

I can't comment so much on this game as since lunch on the 1st day, due to umpiring commitments, I have had to rely on the highlights - but reports suggest Bresnan has bowled pretty well.

As I thought the pitch has quickened up from day one. And the cracks seemed to offer some help for the bowlers yesterday.

 

[Spark]

Hmm, he bowled OK at Lord's but he wasn't outstanding. Definitely the weakest on show IMO. He's been very good post day 1 here ofc.