**Official** West Indies in England 2012

[Flem274*]

Might be time for Jimmy to be given a blow I reckon ...

He should save the celebrations until the game is over tbh.

 

[Biryani Pillow]

Is it me or is Finn massively over-rated here?

I don't think he is.

I think he's a fine bowler who is unlucky to be around at the time of the best English seam attack since the late 70s, and maybe better than that.

The reason he's not playing is that he's reasonably similar to Broad but doesn't swing it us much or as often. He's probably the quickest amongst them which will help at times.

The bowler who is overated here is Onions.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Finn is not a similar bowler to Broad.

 

[Valer]

My point is that without injuries, neither of them would have lost their place in the side.

My point is that one of them will be dropped going into the next test -- even if both are fit? I'm not sure where the problem is.

 

[Biryani Pillow]

Finn is not a similar bowler to Broad.

Tall - check.

Good pace - check

Gets some seam movement - check

Can, at times, get some swing - near check

I said reasonably similar and will stick with that.

Anderson and Bresnan give a different balance.

 

[Uppercut]

Is it me or is Finn massively over-rated here?

I'm not sure whether it's that or Bresnan's just underrated, or some combination of both. Finn has a lot of qualities that often lead to a bowler being overrated- a flattering early-career average, speedgun pace, the ability to make batsmen 'look uncomfortable', height, a short-ish standard length, a good ODI record...

Bresnan's the opposite. The biggest factor, I think, is just that he doesn't look anything like how we expect a top-class sportsman to look. His game can seem a bit basic- it almost feels like line, length and little bits of lateral movement at a decent but unspectacular pace shouldn't be enough. And he can bat, and he's from Yorkshire. So he pretty much fits perfectly into the well-know 'honest county bits-and-pieces trundler' stereotype, in every way except actual ability.

 

[otagoman]

Sammy has a lot of fight in him.

A full strength Windies team could be pretty competitive here.

Gayle
Barath
Chanderpaul
Bravo
Samuels
Bravo
Pollard
Ramdin
Taylor/Edwards
Narine
Roach

 

[Spark]

There's more to bowling than that. Finn's action, to me, seems much less repeatable.

I wouldn't class them as especially similar bowlers at all, other than the fact they're both tall.

Bresnan is much more accurate, is a much more intelligent bowler in his plans, is far more skillful in both extracting and using movement and bowls at a reasonable pace. I really don't see any justification for calling Finn even a roughly equivalent bowler to Bresnan at this stage. Frankly, if the performances of Anderson and Philander over the last year or two are to show for something it's that pure pace is vastly overrated. (I don't trust the speed guns here at all ftr)

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Tall - check.

Good pace - check

Gets some seam movement - check

Can, at times, get some swing - near check

I said reasonably similar and will stick with that.

Anderson and Bresnan give a different balance.

Brensan and Broad are far more similar than Finn and Broad, which kinda makes your balance theory invalid. Finn is pretty close to an out-and-out tearaway quick, Broad is more of a McGrath-metronome type.

 

[Biryani Pillow]

Brensan and Broad are far more similar than Finn and Broad, which kinda makes your theory invalid. Finn is pretty close to an out-and-out fast bowler, Broad is more of a McGrath-metronome type.

Errrr........no.

 

[Uppercut]

Tall - check.

Good pace - check

Gets some seam movement - check

Can, at times, get some swing - near check

I said reasonably similar and will stick with that.

TBH you could say all of those things about most test bowlers.

They're different in that Broad is accurate and bowls a full length, whereas Finn isn't especially accurate and bowls a short-ish length. Maybe you could compare Finn to early-career broad, when he barely ever took any wickets. That would probably undersell Finn a bit, though.

 

[Spark]

Errrr........no.

Pitch-it-up, accurate outswing bowlers with nasty bouncers? More to it than it looks. Bresnan's a skiddier type, though, while Broad is more likely to get disconcerting bounce off a length (his spell at Lord's was actually a good example, some of the balls were suddenly taking off from a short-of-driving length where no one else had got anything from the pitch)

 

[Ruckus]

It's funny how Anderson hasn't 'converted' more of his solid performances into really impressive figures in the last year or two, because he is actually bowling really well. It's taking so long for his average to drop below 30 where it belongs.

 

[wellAlbidarned]

Errrr........no.

They're both steady medium fast bowlers who can bowl consistent lines and get it to nip around, as well as the ability to kick it up a gear or two when needed. I'm not saying they're particularly similar, just more so than Broad and Finn.

 

[Cabinet96]

Does Finn really bowl shortish? He's always bowled quite full IMO, especially recently in the ODI's.

 

[Flem274*]

The last time I saw Finn was admittedly the Ashes, but he's got nothing on Bres. Bresnan knows where the ball will land and doesn't have an average flattered by batsmen being daft.

Finn has promise, lots of promise, but he is no Bresnan. Bresnan can also bat. England's super tail is part of the reason they're so good atm.

 

[Spark]

It's funny how Anderson hasn't 'converted' more of his solid performances into real match winning figures of late, because he is actually bowling really well. It's taking so long for his average to drop below 30 where it belongs.

In a sentence, he bowls a tad too short with the old ball. He has been a little on the unlucky side (with catches, edges and the like), and the combination has meant that he's not going to be taking big hauls.

 

[Spark]

Does Finn really bowl shortish? He's always bowled quite full IMO, especially recently in the ODI's.

He's not really accurate enough to categorise him as a full/short bowler (whereas Broad was consistently short pre-Lord's-India).

 

[Arachnodouche]

I think this SA series should put a lot of questions to rest, one way or the other. Finn is young, fast, a strike bowler..something you need from your no. 3 guy. Because, as we've seen this series, Anderson and Broad, as good as they are, have been made to toil at times by two decent batsmen and one heave-and-hope sort. I'd be more than glad to see Bresnan being retained for the summer series due to folk-hero, blue-collar sensibilities, but Finn is an exciting talent. Deserves a shot.

 

[Pothas]

In a sentence, he bowls a tad too short with the old ball. He has been a little on the unlucky side (with catches, edges and the like), and the combination has meant that he's not going to be taking big hauls.

He is going to soon though.