Top post !! I was going to type some what the same as like this but no more need for that .. Imran truly never had enough talent in the mid 80's especially where Zulqurnain was a keeper and bunch of BS Elahi brothers were playing and plus had some over weight retards in his side and only a few were what you can say "world class" e.g. Wasim , Javed Miandad ...........
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My top 20 allrounders of all-time
- Thread starter Days of Grace
- Start date
I have checked a few of your other posts too ...
I have seen enough of this BS before and this forum is well and truly made for some clean minded people !!! I wont go in details but intelligent members here never liked WahIndiawahs , Amits , Alex kumars etc etc ..... Sick and tired now tbv v v V h !!!!!
The Sean
Cricketer Of The Year
You never did tell us how you allocated these scores...Sink your teeth into this then lads...My top 20 TEST allrounders of all time.
I suspect that Kallis may lose rating points as time goes on because I expect him not to bowl as much and I also don't expect him to maintain his batting average of 55+
1 G.S. Sobers (WI) 975
2 Imran Khan (P) 878
3 I.T. Botham (E) 867
4 J.H. Kallis (SA) 866
5 K.R. Miller (A) 828
6 G.A. Faulkner (SA) 810
7 R.J. Hadlee (NZ) 706
8 S.M. Pollock (SA) 679
9 N. Kapil Dev (I) 675
10 A.W. Greig (E) 672
11 C.L. Cairns (NZ) 657
12 T.L. Goddard (SA) 648
13 W. Rhodes (E) 572
14 M.A. Noble (A) 561
15 A. Flintoff (E) 541
16 A.K. Davidson (A) 534
17 J.M. Gregory (A) 531
18 C. Kelleway (A) 524
19 Wasim Akram (P) 521
20 M.H. Mankad (I) 520
Days of Grace
International Captain
I'll explain it tomorrow. Good night lads.
The Sean
Cricketer Of The Year
The suspense will kill me. What a cliffhanger of a departure.
BhupinderSingh
Banned
BhupinderSingh
Banned
Imran Khan's greatest triumph as captain was 3 test series that he drew with West Indies at a time when everyone else was getting thrashed,not the 1992 World Cup victory.
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Swervy
International Captain
yeah right
Imran Khan is the best captain ever
Fusion
Global Moderator
He may not be number one, but his credentials are up there. It's certainly not a laughing matter IMHO. He belongs in the discussion at least.yeah right
Sanz
Hall of Fame Member
He does and I am one of greatest fans of Imran's captaincy, but the way Bhupinder Singh Ji argues he doesn't leave any room for discussion.
Fusion
Global Moderator
True. I just wanted to emphasize that placing Imran in the discussion for the top Captain of all time is not a ridiculous notion.
Swervy
International Captain
but to say he is the best captain ever is as far as I can see
Sanz
Hall of Fame Member
Whether or not Imran is the best captain ever is very much debatable and ultimately it is going to come down to what your personal perference criteria is for a captain to be considered as best ever.
For some of us It's not as far as you suggest and in that regard Your response isn't much better than Bhupinder Singh's.
Swervy
International Captain
I can see how my post could be interpreted!!!!
You are right, it does come down to personal preference, I was more responding to Bhupinders absolute faith in his assertion that Imran was best ever, no questions asked.
TT Boy
Hall of Fame Member
His 400 plus International wickets would probably suggest otherwise.
Armadillo
State Vice-Captain
Another thing being overlooked when it comes to Imran is the talent that he unearthed. Inzi, Wasim, Waqar - they all owe a great deal to Imran for either:
1. Sparking off their illustrious international careers.
or
2. Nurturing them to become the players that they did become.
Just look at the way that players who played under Imran praise him in terms of what he did for their career - that will give you a true insight into how successful Imran truly was as captain.
1. Sparking off their illustrious international careers.
or
2. Nurturing them to become the players that they did become.
Just look at the way that players who played under Imran praise him in terms of what he did for their career - that will give you a true insight into how successful Imran truly was as captain.
Days of Grace
International Captain
For the Sean (if he hasn't died of the suspense), and anyone else:
Criteria for rating allrounders.
1. First of all, multipy their batting and bowling ratings.
Example: Sobers has a batting rating of 845 and a bowling rating of 352. Added together, that gives him 1197 points.
The leaders after doing this are:
1. Hadlee 1244
2. Imran 1243
3. Sobers 1197
4. Kallis 1152
5. Botham 1140
6. Miller 1065
7. Pollock 1062
8. Faulkner 1052
9. Kapil 1006
2. Runs per wicket. IMO, an ideal allrounder would take 20 runs per wicket (anyone who sees differently is welcome to post a response). Divide the runs per wicket of each player by 20 to ascertain how many percentage points they are away from the 'ideal' 20 mark. Or, if they are a bowling allrounder, divide 20 by the runs per wicket.
For example: Sobers (batting allrounder). 34.18 RPW. Divide this by 20 and you get 1.71 (i.e. 71% away from the ideal mark of 20). I then muliply 71 by 1.5 (why? Because it seems to get the best result). And, therefore, Sobers loses 106.5 off his original rating of 1197.
For Hadlee, a bowling allrounder, I divide 20 by his RPW of 7.25. He is 176% away from the ideal mark of 20. Therefore, he loses 264 points (171*1.5) from his original rating of 1244.
Now, the closest anyone has come to the ideal mark of 20 RPW is Goddard with 20.46, followed by Faulkner with 21.39.
The leaders after this stage are:
Imran Khan (P) 1108
G.S. Sobers (WI) 1091
I.T. Botham (E) 1070
K.R. Miller (A) 1043
G.A. Faulkner (SA) 1042
J.H. Kallis (SA) 1005
R.J. Hadlee (NZ) 980
N. Kapil Dev (I) 909
C.L. Cairns (NZ) 885
S.M. Pollock (SA) 882
T.L. Goddard (SA) 845
3. Difference between batting average and bowling average.
Imran has a batting average of 37.69 and a bowling average of 22.81. Therefore, the difference is +14.88. This is multiplied by 10 and therefore Imran gets 148.8 points added to his existing 1108.
The big winners are the batting allrounders here, such as Sobers and Kallis. I am thinking that maybe this part of the equation needs some adjustment. Comments are welcome. The losers are those who have a lesser batting average then bowling average (none of the top 20), such as Vettori and Vass.
Anyway, we end up with:
G.S. Sobers (WI) 1328
Imran Khan (P) 1257
J.H. Kallis (SA) 1239
G.A. Faulkner (SA) 1184
K.R. Miller (A) 1183
I.T. Botham (E) 1121
R.J. Hadlee (NZ) 1029
S.M. Pollock (SA) 973
T.L. Goddard (SA) 927
C.L. Cairns (NZ) 926
4. 100 runs/5 wickets a match bonus.
What i mean is 100+ runs over two innings and a total of 5 wickets over the course of the match. Each time a player does this, he gets 15 bonus points.
Sobers and Botham have each done this 7 times. Next is, surprisingly, Greig (4). Imran only did it 2 times with a host of others, including Kallis
5. Another bonus. Anyone to complete the 2000 runs/100 wkts double gets an extra 30 points. Anyone (actually only Botham and Kapil at this stage) to complete 5000 runs/250 wkts gets an extra 70 points.
6. Divide the grand total by 1.5. Why? It just looks nice if the top allrounder is close to 1000 points. 1000 points for me in my ratings makes you a near 'immortal'.
So, after all that lads, I need a warm beer or two with W.G, who usually prefers a scotch.
A reminder of the final ratings:
G.S. Sobers (WI) 975
Imran Khan (P) 878
I.T. Botham (E) 867
J.H. Kallis (SA) 866
K.R. Miller (A) 828
G.A. Faulkner (SA) 809
R.J. Hadlee (NZ) 706
S.M. Pollock (SA) 679
N. Kapil Dev (I) 675
A.W. Greig (E) 672
C.L. Cairns (NZ) 657
T.L. Goddard (SA) 648
W. Rhodes (E) 568
M.A. Noble (A) 550
A. Flintoff (E) 541
A.K. Davidson (A) 534
J.M. Gregory (A) 531
C. Kelleway (A) 524
Wasim Akram (P) 521
M.H. Mankad (I) 520
Of course, if anyone disagrees with my methods, please reply, as long as its constructive criticism because it will help to make these ratings better.
Criteria for rating allrounders.
1. First of all, multipy their batting and bowling ratings.
Example: Sobers has a batting rating of 845 and a bowling rating of 352. Added together, that gives him 1197 points.
The leaders after doing this are:
1. Hadlee 1244
2. Imran 1243
3. Sobers 1197
4. Kallis 1152
5. Botham 1140
6. Miller 1065
7. Pollock 1062
8. Faulkner 1052
9. Kapil 1006
2. Runs per wicket. IMO, an ideal allrounder would take 20 runs per wicket (anyone who sees differently is welcome to post a response). Divide the runs per wicket of each player by 20 to ascertain how many percentage points they are away from the 'ideal' 20 mark. Or, if they are a bowling allrounder, divide 20 by the runs per wicket.
For example: Sobers (batting allrounder). 34.18 RPW. Divide this by 20 and you get 1.71 (i.e. 71% away from the ideal mark of 20). I then muliply 71 by 1.5 (why? Because it seems to get the best result). And, therefore, Sobers loses 106.5 off his original rating of 1197.
For Hadlee, a bowling allrounder, I divide 20 by his RPW of 7.25. He is 176% away from the ideal mark of 20. Therefore, he loses 264 points (171*1.5) from his original rating of 1244.
Now, the closest anyone has come to the ideal mark of 20 RPW is Goddard with 20.46, followed by Faulkner with 21.39.
The leaders after this stage are:
Imran Khan (P) 1108
G.S. Sobers (WI) 1091
I.T. Botham (E) 1070
K.R. Miller (A) 1043
G.A. Faulkner (SA) 1042
J.H. Kallis (SA) 1005
R.J. Hadlee (NZ) 980
N. Kapil Dev (I) 909
C.L. Cairns (NZ) 885
S.M. Pollock (SA) 882
T.L. Goddard (SA) 845
3. Difference between batting average and bowling average.
Imran has a batting average of 37.69 and a bowling average of 22.81. Therefore, the difference is +14.88. This is multiplied by 10 and therefore Imran gets 148.8 points added to his existing 1108.
The big winners are the batting allrounders here, such as Sobers and Kallis. I am thinking that maybe this part of the equation needs some adjustment. Comments are welcome. The losers are those who have a lesser batting average then bowling average (none of the top 20), such as Vettori and Vass.
Anyway, we end up with:
G.S. Sobers (WI) 1328
Imran Khan (P) 1257
J.H. Kallis (SA) 1239
G.A. Faulkner (SA) 1184
K.R. Miller (A) 1183
I.T. Botham (E) 1121
R.J. Hadlee (NZ) 1029
S.M. Pollock (SA) 973
T.L. Goddard (SA) 927
C.L. Cairns (NZ) 926
4. 100 runs/5 wickets a match bonus.
What i mean is 100+ runs over two innings and a total of 5 wickets over the course of the match. Each time a player does this, he gets 15 bonus points.
Sobers and Botham have each done this 7 times. Next is, surprisingly, Greig (4). Imran only did it 2 times with a host of others, including Kallis
5. Another bonus. Anyone to complete the 2000 runs/100 wkts double gets an extra 30 points. Anyone (actually only Botham and Kapil at this stage) to complete 5000 runs/250 wkts gets an extra 70 points.
6. Divide the grand total by 1.5. Why? It just looks nice if the top allrounder is close to 1000 points. 1000 points for me in my ratings makes you a near 'immortal'.
So, after all that lads, I need a warm beer or two with W.G, who usually prefers a scotch.
A reminder of the final ratings:
G.S. Sobers (WI) 975
Imran Khan (P) 878
I.T. Botham (E) 867
J.H. Kallis (SA) 866
K.R. Miller (A) 828
G.A. Faulkner (SA) 809
R.J. Hadlee (NZ) 706
S.M. Pollock (SA) 679
N. Kapil Dev (I) 675
A.W. Greig (E) 672
C.L. Cairns (NZ) 657
T.L. Goddard (SA) 648
W. Rhodes (E) 568
M.A. Noble (A) 550
A. Flintoff (E) 541
A.K. Davidson (A) 534
J.M. Gregory (A) 531
C. Kelleway (A) 524
Wasim Akram (P) 521
M.H. Mankad (I) 520
Of course, if anyone disagrees with my methods, please reply, as long as its constructive criticism
because it will help to make these ratings better.
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Days of Grace
International Captain
By the way, the criteria for getting a rating as an allrounder in the first place is 1000 runs/50 wkts and a batting average over 20, and a bowling average under 40.
So, far 61 players have done this in the history of test cricket. At the bottom of the pile is Brett Lee, with a grand total 45 ratings points (snigger).
So, far 61 players have done this in the history of test cricket. At the bottom of the pile is Brett Lee, with a grand total 45 ratings points (snigger).
