subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
He had a great 2019 tour. But then fumbled last year. I think he has another great tour in him.
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Can Cummins make it to the top 10 pacers ever?
- Thread starter subshakerz
- Start date
Sliferxxxx
School Boy/Girl Captain
That's cute but he's significantly better away from home than Imran and we both know how you value away averages. And SC is not the best all and end all. His record over 6 tests in Asia is better than Imran's in NZ and Australia. Looks like imran didn't have the bowling set to succeed in Oceania.....
sayon basak
International Captain
I'd not rate Cummins ahead of Garner already.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
A great tour of India and one in England never hurt anyone....... His record is a bit too lenient on home
Sliferxxxx
School Boy/Girl Captain
I did say probably.
sayon basak
International Captain
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Ambrose 'away' is basically just England and Australia where he admittedly crushed it. But no real samples outside that to judge except middling returns in Pakistan.
Of course you are fine skipping the SC which most regards as a serious test for a fast bowler since Ambrose didn't even play a test in India and had one test in SL. How convenient. If the SC is irrelevant then Ambrose should be ahead of Steyn too.
Imran in Australia is probably the most misleading overall numbers since he has several tests he didn't even bowl in as he played as a bat, and it doesn't include WSC where he was arguably the best of all bowlers. So yeah Imran has zero issues in Australia and anyone who objectively looks at his series by series performances will come to that conclusion.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Hot take probably now:
I don't think Cummins and Rabada have much difference between and by the time they retire, I think both will have equivalent careers.
I don't think Cummins and Rabada have much difference between and by the time they retire, I think both will have equivalent careers.
sayon basak
International Captain
Why is this a hot take?
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Rabada have much friendlier home conditions and has poorer record in India (though removing his debut series, not that poorer) and had one bad series in Australia (where he bowled thrash but got away with respectable numbers).
sayon basak
International Captain
This home series vs PAK isn't really convincing me that Rabada will end up the way I'd hope. (maybe he's trying to balance his home vs away record idk)
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
I think Cummins is just qualitatively better and more consistent and will be recognized as such by career end.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Rabada is more inconsistent but is deadlier imo. The Holding to Cummins' Garner. I believe by retirement they will stand that way.
Sliferxxxx
School Boy/Girl Captain
Ambrose is ahead of Imran, just let it go. Imrans 26 average outside Pakistan just isn't good enough for a top 5 bowler no matter how you try to play it off. I want my top 5 bowlers to go below 25 away, same way you want your top batsman to go at 50+ away. Or am I mistaken....
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Dude Rabada bowled in one match, at home and got 2 wickets....... Don't think there's anything to make of it.
sayon basak
International Captain
Nah I don't like when randos steal Rabada's wickets. Let him get the wickets!
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Yeah I changed that. I expanded my top tier to include Lara since I don't think using raw averages is a good approach to determine these sorts of things even if Lara was poorer away. It's too reductive. Look at context.
For example, Steyn averages 24.9 away. Are you saying you are only keeping him in your top tier because of 0.1 points? Sounds silly.
And of course Ambrose playing 34/46 of his away tests in preferred countries Eng and Aus while skipping India and SL is a big reason for him averaging less away.
Once you go through Imran's record with the context of him having a longer career than any fast bowler in cricket history you realise not to take numbers at face value.
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subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Don't think he is deadlier away from home and much more likely to be smashed by quality bats.
capt_Luffy
Cricketer Of The Year
Frankly, Cummins has very little to show away as well. And yeah, he is more likely to be squashed but he is better in running through line-ups as well.
Sliferxxxx
School Boy/Girl Captain
Ambrose didnt skip anything, the one time he had a chance in India he was injured and he never had any opportunities in SL save for one test. Please stop with the half truths. And if we're adding context and caveats for Imran, I might remind you that Ambrose was injured during that horror tour of Pakistan in 1997. Still, he has a better record there than Imran in Nz and Australia. All of a sudden we need "context" for less than stellar away records....aka only when it suits Subz.