Can Cummins make it to the top 10 pacers ever?

[kyear2]

Sorry but this is nonsense. Marshall who you rate as no 3 ever is simply not valued as a cricketer by the same pundits you use to build your case for Barry.

This is pure hypocrisy.

Are you slow or are you missing the ****ing point.

I'm not taking about rankings as cricketers. I'm talking about rankings in respective primary disciplines which you're either deliberately missing or just not reading.

Barry is seen as at worst a top 4 opener of all time. Period. Marshall is seen as the greatest, and at worse a top 2 bowler of all time, behind a bowler, mind you that not a single soul on CW believes was better than him. That's the comp. I wasn't using player rankings.

Ranking as cricketers, as I've repeatedly said is more subjective. It's hard enough when ranking batsmen vs batsmen, before you include batsmen vs bowlers and that's before you include all rounders.

But yes, as I've asked you in another post.

Besides using using consensus or anything of the sort. Explain why Malcolm Marshall, the greatest bowler ever isn't a top 3 or top 5 cricketer.

I've also asked you to tell me why the 8th best bowler ever should be a top 3 or top 5 player over 3 bowlers who were clearly better and a tier over him and batsmen with claims to be the best since Bradman.

Simple.

It's subjective as hell.

 

[subshakerz]

Ok, so his record there isn't respectable?

4 matches over 2 series, just under 3 wickets per match, a s/r of 60 and an average of 32.

Just saying he needs to bring that average below 30 with a good series

 

[subshakerz]

Barry is seen as at worst a top 4 opener of all time. Period. Marshall is seen as the greatest, and at worse a top 2 bowler of all time, behind a bowler, mind you that not a single soul on CW believes was better than him. That's the comp. I wasn't using player rankings.

Ranking as cricketers, as I've repeatedly said is more subjective. It's hard enough when ranking batsmen vs batsmen, before you include batsmen vs bowlers and that's before you include all rounders.

Marshall isnt seen as the greatest. The whole point is you ignore pundit rankings for Marshall when these are clearly important and you cite them for other cricketers. Plenty of bowlers get rated ahead of Marshall by pundits. He clearly isn't seen as the greatest bowler by pundits. As a cricketer, he is rated even less. Yet you have him as no.3 cricketer ever yet cite the same pundits and rankings to establish Barry as an ATG opener. That's the hypocrisy.

Besides using using consensus or anything of the sort. Explain why Malcolm Marshall, the greatest bowler ever isn't a top 3 or top 5 cricketer.

There are players with more impact on cricket than him and not just pretty numbers. Probably why pundits also don't rate him as highly.

 

[Coronis]

What other cricketer do we parse and adjust averages for? None.

Um… hate to burst your bubble but… check out almost every thread in PC and get back to me on this.

Both debuted as teenagers. Imran was to the manor born, went to the best schools where his craft was honed. Sobers was self taught and never received coaching until entering the WI team, teaching himself the game playing cricket in the streets of Bridgetown with taped rocks and coconut stems for a bat. He didn't get his first set of whites until one was donated to him on debut.

iirc many of the very best cricketers were self taught. e.g Bradman, Hobbs. It may even be an advantage tbh.

But batting (or bowling) ratings are straight forward as hell. Who was the better batsman? Don't think there's a list where Chappell is higher, and with Sunny the two interchange. But while they were both playing, Barry was seen to be better, and even after Barry retired, there was literally one series where Sunny did anything that would have changed that equation.

I mean Sunny did go on and have an 8 and a half year career of over 80 tests averaging 52 after Barry first retired.

I don't have any insane rankings like Richards being a top 15 batsman like a couple here do

Huh, you don’t have him that high? Actually one might call that insane tbh.

 

[Coronis]

Sure but it matters to Mr Blind Average guy who I was responding to who doesn't know that.

Just saying he needs to bring that average below 30 with a good series

teehee

 

[subshakerz]

teehee

Hey we all do it.

 

[capt_Luffy]

Marshall came right after Lillee and literally the only country that rates Lillee higher is in Australia.

The difference that you're choosing to ignore is that Marshall even in Australia and by that metric is top 2.

Barry is still up there, but is ignored all together. That's the difference.

That's literally not true. Lillee definitely is rated higher in England and over world in general. Around 90% of pundits and All Time Rankings have Lillee well ahead of Marshall. The number is very significantly more than for say Barry over Gavaskar. Marshall wasn't rated even the clear best WI quick of his time.
Barry is literally ignored in the same way Vijay Merchant is. Tell me what exactly makes Barry better than Merchant??