Coronis
International Coach
Oh I’m not even specifically talking about Lillee. Just that it keeps getting brought up endlessly in every thread it seems, as the be all and end all.
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Wasim Akram vs Dennis Lillee
- Thread starter PlayerComparisons
- Start date
What’s surprising is even in ODI’s Lillee played only in Australia, England and New Zealand. So out of 458 International Wickets Lillee took 452 Wickets he took only in
, A True Patriot of British Empire.
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Not surprising. He retired practically at the end of 1983.
Worldwide boom of ODI cricket (meaning multi-team tournaments involving Australia, like the ones in Sharjah in 90s etc.) hadn't happened at the time. Major ODI cricket was still limited to bilaterals, World Cups (all England) and WSC (mostly Australia).
capt_Luffy
International Coach
Just noticed I previously voted for Lillee after arguing for Wasim for so long.... Corrected.I see someone changed their vote to Lillee to now make it 36 to 34. Just need one more person to change their vote and we have a tie
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
Same here.
Just proves you voted correctly the first time before becoming brainwashed by this "should have played in Asia despite no tours he was selected for" nonsense
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
No. I was too influenced by surface stats and later realised there are valid reasons why Wasims record isn't better.
sayon basak
International Captain
Could you share your top ten pacers list?Just proves you voted correctly the first time before becoming brainwashed by this "should have played in Asia despite no tours he was selected for" nonsense
Migara
International Coach
Whole lot of hog wash to cover up poor performances on slower wickets.Dennis Lillee was highly regarded not because he got a back problem in West Indies or he did not perform well in Sri Lanka or Philippines, He gave his best in series that matters most for Australia during his time period. He popularized fast bowling more than any other bowler for the cricketand he may have had his flaws but that won’t matter much when you compare his performance to that of other bowlers of his era.
Migara
International Coach
Wasim was 21 by 1987.
kyear2
International Coach
After the India series in '83 till 1990 or so there was no doubt who the best bowler in the world was, at least not by his peers.
The pundits were too busy being mortified by what the WI pacers were doing to destroy the game, and trying to come up with ways to change the rules. Despite it being exactly what they had previously lauded Lillee for.
With regards to Lillee, from a peer perspective post Lindwall, there's only been 4, and arguably 5 if Steyn is included who's been looked upon as greatest of their era and contender for the best. Lillee is still seen by many as among them. Lillee like Ambrose here for some, is criticized for not playing enough in the SC, but firstly, you can only play who you play, and most importantly, they were scheduled most to play who were their biggest rivals and competition. Don't think India nor Australia are lining up to send tours to the Caribbean these days either. So yes, while it can be noted that his record wasn't as complete, it's not a bludgeon to be used to disqualify him either.
While Wasim is also there, it's argued my some that it's more to do with skill than results and there's definitely some conflation with regards to his odi exploits. Also with regards to his reign at the top, it was also possibly the shortest, not even being seen as the best untill Ambrose's shoulder surgery in '94. But the genius shines through and so it's been
Lillee
Marshall
Wasim
McGrath
Steyn
Looking past the genius and looking at the numbers though, it's not beyond the pale to rate Wasim last among that group. Especially when looking at length of reign and impact.
subshakerz
Hall of Fame Member
What evidence is there that Marshall was considered the best bowler in 83?
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Dennis Lillee Record in Australia, England and New Zealand - 349 Wickets @22.78 vs Glenn McGrath Record in Australia, England and New Zealand - 406 Wickets @21.47 vs Richard Hadlee - 348 Wickets @22.22 in Australia, England and New Zealand vs Shane Warne - 497 Wickets @24.74 in Australia, England and New Zealand.
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Australia, England and New Zealand : Dennis Lillee’s 349 Wickets @22.78 vs Richard Hadlee’s 348 Wickets @22.22 - Who took more quality Wickets in these three Countries ?
capt_Luffy
International Coach
Lillee didn't took much quality wickets in NZ
What about England
capt_Luffy
International Coach
Hmmm.... I would say both played some alrightish English teams. No top tier Greats (except an old Boycott for Lillee), but a number of very good ones, even some ATVGs in Gower, Gooch, Smith, etc.
Johan
International Vice-Captain
Robin Smith vs Cheteshwar Pujara should be a good thread.