Wasim Akram vs Dennis Lillee

[bagapath]

And it is debatable on whether Akram in the 90s is any lesser than Lillee is his era on peer rating.

Not for me.
Lillee was indisputable.
Akram was almost indisputable.

 

[subshakerz]

Lillee towered over his competition more obviously.

Akram and Ambrose and Waqar until 95 OR Akram and Donald and McGrath from 96-2000 were closer calls.

Sure Lillee but towered over less competition. But I won't deny Ambrose was rated higher than Wasim in the early 90s.

But by end career, Wasim was the firm favorite and it isn't close.

 

[bagapath]

Sure Lillee but towered over less competition.

Not true

 

[subshakerz]

I don't think Lillee is behind anyone as far as peer ratings are concerned.
In 1980s and well into 1990s, Lillee was the benchmark of fast bowling.
He was, almost by default, considered the greatest fast bowler of the modern era.
Many greats of the time including Viv Richards, Barry Richards, Ian Botham name him as the best they faced.
Imran too regarded him as one of the best, if not the best fast bowler, of his era.

To give you an idea, in this video about Malcolm Marshall, when Wasim Akram pretty much begs to differ (telling that he considers Marshall as the greatest over Lillee), he almost sounds a bit apolegetic.
It just shows you the pedestal on which the then cricketing world put Lillee on.

Marshall had a pretty solid peer rating in his era but wasn't as celebrated among pundits about it, it was more the chatter among players and now has come to light.

 

[subshakerz]

Not true

For most of the 70s until WSC yes.

 

[Van_Sri]

Dennis Lillee’s 70s Stardom triggered lot of fast bowlers around the world to surpass him and 80s era mostly had the influence of Lillee on them. So he was the pioneer of modern fast bowlers in Cricket. But if you want to judge them purely as a Bowler Wasim can be rated higher as he was more skillful bowler than what Lillee was back in 70s.

 

[Migara]

Dennis Lillee > Wasim Akram in England : Lillee took 96 Wickets @20.56 and Wasim took 53 Wickets @28.73 - The Question here is Why Wasim Struggled in England ?

Why Lillee struggled in SC and WI?

 

[Migara]

Wasim Akram Performance in England : 1987 Tour of England : 16 Wickets @29, 1992 Tour of England : 21 Wickets @22, 1996 Tour of England : 11 Wickets @31.81, 2001 Tour of England : 5 Wickets @49.40. Dennis Lillee Performance in England : 1972 Tour of England : 31 Wickets @17.67, 1975 Tour of England : 21 Wickets @21.90, Centenary Test 1980 : 5 Wickets @19.20, 1981 Tour of England : 39 Wickets @22.30 - A Great Bowler Should Perform Well When it matters the most, Lillee did it so cannot put Wasim ahead of Lillee.

Lillee spilled it when it really mattered in SC and in WI in slower wickets.

 

[Migara]

Holding and Roberts and Botham peaked before 81. Imran before 82. Lillee retired in 84. Everyone in the world knew it was a fast bowling festival and Lillee was the top dog.

Fast bowler festival actually started after Lillee's retirement. Marshall, Garner, Ambrose, Walsh, Donad;, Pollock, Imran, Wasim, Waqar, Hadlee, McGrath, vs few names before that. early 80s to late 90s was the peak of fast bowling.

 

[sayon basak]

Why Lillee struggled in SC and WI?

Lillee spilled it when it really mattered in SC and in WI in slower wickets.

Judging by only 4 matches is a bit harsh (and dishonest), don't you think?

 

[Migara]

the fast bowling pool was richest in that time, hence Lillee's primary position in that era is extra special

Nope. It was early 80s to end of 90s. Lillee was retired by then, That is when Imran, Hadlee and Marshall hit their ridiculous peaks, which easily dwarfs Lillee in comparison.

 

[Migara]

Judging by only 4 matches is a bit harsh (and dishonest), don't you think?

It is because he has refused to travel SC on "health" grounds, where as other players stuck it out.

 

[Migara]

Lillee towered over his competition more obviously.

Akram and Ambrose and Waqar until 95 OR Akram and Donald and McGrath from 96-2000 were closer calls.

Which was not much TBH, compared to what Marshall, Hadlee and McGrath towered over.

 

[Johan]

Why Lillee struggled in SC and WI?

Lillee was better in WI than Wasim was in England, lol

 

[sayon basak]

It is because he has refused to travel SC on "health" grounds, where as other players stuck it out.

That's just wrong.

@Qlder has posted some insights on the topic.

You've said this in a few threads now so I'm wondering what holes you perceive to be in his record. Could it be:

(1) Didn't play in India. No tours to India were scheduled during his career, how can he be marked down for that

(2) Didn't play in West Indies. He was selected on one tour where he had to go home because of a broken back (did prove himself in WI during WSC)

(3) Didn't play in South Aftica. No tours during his time

(4) Only averaged 35 in Sri Lanka. Lillee played one Test so hardly enough sample to judge

(5) Didn't bowl well in Pakistan. No pace bowler did as pitches were absolute roads on his only tour. Even Rod Marsh bowled 10 overs as Australia bowled everyone on those highways

How often do you think Asian tours went on in the 1960s and '70s?

Australia toured India in 1969 then 10 years later in 1979 and then 1986. Lillee missed all because he wasn't playing for Australia during any of those tours (career 1971-84) (WSC 1977-79)

Same with Pakistan where Australia had no tours between 1965 and 1979

As for West Indies Lillee toured in 1973 but broke his back in 1st Test and was sent home. The next tours were in 1978 and 1984. Again when Lillee wasn't playing for Australia

 

[Migara]

Lillee was better in WI than Wasim was in England, lol

You mean like having no average?

 

[Van_Sri]

Why Lillee struggled in SC and WI?

In those days West Indies was not yet a powerful team West Indies was hammered by Lillee and Thompson in 1975 in Australia. Ashes was mostly prestigious. After Winning 1979 World Cup things changed for West Indies. Lillee delivered when it matters the most (In his time). 2-3 years Lillee was also busy in World Series Cricket so missed some tours.

 

[Migara]

That's just wrong.

He was concerned of diarrhea and did not tour India, which was one of the graveyards of fast bowling.

 

[Migara]

In those days West Indies was not yet a powerful team West Indies was hammered by Lillee and Thompson in 1975 in Australia. Ashes was mostly prestigious. After Winning 1979 World Cup things changed for West Indies. Lillee delivered when it matters the most (In his time). 2-3 years Lillee was also busy in World Series Cricket so missed some tours.

West Indies hammered Australia in 1979 and became number one in tests. They were in the ascendency since 1975/6 tour

 

[subshakerz]

Lillee was better in WI than Wasim was in England, lol

Not really.