*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

[ataraxia]

Surely it's pretty clear by now that Macewell isn't viewed as a part-timer by Stead and co. I mean, I think he's a much-inferior option to Ravindra but the former hasn;t exactly been super bad with the ball so far in his career (by NZ spinner standards).

 

[straw man]

Surely it's pretty clear by now that Macewell isn't viewed as a part-timer by Stead and co.

He's horribly wrong.

 

[thierry henry]

As much as we go on about it, I still think we are understating just how bad the ongoing selection of Bracewell in test cricket is. Almost feels like people have been gaslit into giving him grudging praise based on, I guess, him having the slightly unexpected knack of taking 3 expensive wickets per test. There's no grudging praise required - your spinner doesn't get praise for taking his wickets at 45 apiece while leaking a high RPO, while averaging 20 with the bat when his supposed ability to contribute there is clearly relevant to his selection. The crap selection has played like crap, we must not go searching for positives.

 

[Kippax]

More Charlie Brown returns delivered with the ball by Ravindra though, I see.

0/121 off 23 against Auckland in the current round.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

Apart from Ireland who have played almost no tests and Dockrell is bowling a lot less than he used, Bracewell is inferior to all main (and several back up) current spinners in each test team.

 

[CricAddict]

Apart from Ireland who have played almost no tests and Dockrell is bowling a lot less than he used, Bracewell is inferior to all main (and several back up) current spinners in each test team.

For west indies, if Motie plays, then yes. But those selectors are doing weird selections as well and chose Chase as the main spinner ahead of Motie for his batting. A very similar case there. And I do believe Bracewell is a better spinner than Chase.

 

[straw man]

CDG is the best example ever of how we just don’t have the slightest clue when it comes to selections. CW’s reaction to his debut (mine included) is just hilarious in retrospect.

I went looking for mine out of interest, I merely called it a 'wtf' so ah quite mild . Always fun to see what was being said x years ago. It's 2016 so includes Blocky being obnoxious, of course.

De Grandhomme is a pretty wtf selection. There as backup for Neesham, however if Neesham were to break then they would be far better to just play a batsman at 6. Probably Ronchi, who has been carried all around the world fairly undeservedly as a squad member and ironically, now he's actually played and scored some test runs, is dropped.

At least de Grandhomme has kept his head and done exactly what he would do in NZ domestic cricket.

Generally speaking I don't love to see bowlers of his type be successful for NZ, because they're no use outside NZ and England. He's been vital here though more generally will judge him on runs scored.

 

[Fuller Pilch]

For west indies, if Motie plays, then yes. But those selectors are doing weird selections as well and chose Chase as the main spinner ahead of Motie for his batting. A very similar case there. And I do believe Bracewell is a better spinner than Chase.

Yes, agree re Motie and Chase. I was referring to Motie in my post above. I also see Chase batted at 5 in the 1st test which reflects on WI's batting.

 

[The Hutt Rec]

Your name should be changed to Howdoyouevenexistsie with such silly opinions.

Good idea for a nickname, maybe it will catch on.

 

[thierry henry]

Put in the work to check what embarrassing things I had to say about CDG when he made his test debut and found out I made exactly 1 post between March and December 2016 and it was about Franklyn Rose ?‍

 

[SteveNZ]

I'd suggest we should all settle in and get used to Macewell being in the Test XI, with quite a bit of sub-continent cricket coming up in the next 18 months. Sodhi will come back in, and unless Ravindra absolutely smashes the door in to play, they'll play the 'we back Michael to come good' scenario.

 

[Prince EWS]

I'd suggest we should all settle in and get used to Macewell being in the Test XI, with quite a bit of sub-continent cricket coming up in the next 18 months. Sodhi will come back in, and unless Ravindra absolutely smashes the door in to play, they'll play the 'we back Michael to come good' scenario.

Again, not ever sure this is a huge problem. He sucks, but a batting allrounder at 7 bowling some offies will usually not swing games one way or the other, and he's at least theoretically useful.

It's the role they pick him in that's the real drama IMO. A bowling allrounder in a four man attack getting smashed will swing games.

 

[straw man]

... we must not go searching for positives.

TH life motto right here!

 

[straw man]

Euphoria of Black Caps test victory papers over some alarming cracks

Mark Geenty drawing a tiny spotlight to the problems now and ahead.

 

[SteveNZ]

Again, not ever sure this is a huge problem. He sucks, but a batting allrounder at 7 bowling some offies will usually not swing games one way or the other, and he's at least theoretically useful.

It's the role they pick him in that's the real drama IMO. A bowling allrounder in a four man attack getting smashed will swing games.

It's more the lack of development for the guy behind him that concerns me. So whoever the guy is who'd fulfill that role if he wasn't there (Phillips, Ravindra) or if they'd play Sodhi and allow him to carry on from the promise in Pakistan, is being held back for what seems like a project that just isn't working. I don't at all think he'll swing games the other way, but it's just a massive backward step for a team that is carrying a project that isn't performing and isn't young.

 

[The Hutt Rec]

Based on his performance so far, we’d be better off going back to Santner!

 

[nzfan]

I'd suggest we should all settle in and get used to Macewell being in the Test XI, with quite a bit of sub-continent cricket coming up in the next 18 months. Sodhi will come back in, and unless Ravindra absolutely smashes the door in to play, they'll play the 'we back Michael to come good' scenario.

Yup Bracewell is here to stay till he retires. I'm not saying that in a bad way but like you pointed out there are plenty of sub continent cricket coming up and he will be one of the first on the list unless he gets smashed by Sri Lanka and Stead leaves in a jiff. Both are not possible.

Doesn't matter what Ravindra or Phillips do it will be the mix of Bracewell, Sodhi and surely enough Santner will come back in fairly quickly given his form and Southee the captain. We will have to wait few years to really see the young brigade come through. For Phillips or Ravindra to make the side consistently it will take another couple of years or three. Hope by then they don't lose hope and keep at it. They should keep looking for opportunities in t20 leagues around the world. That now is a very good platform to learn from top cricketers.

I remember the England selections prior to the ashes 2005. Duncan Fletcher went the other way around, picked guys like Trescothick, Strauss, Simon Jones, Harmison etc... purely based on scouting them and ignoring the numbers in domestic cricket. The county guys then were quite pissed off with Fletcher for going on to pick players with no great domestic numbers attached to them but then Fletcher didn't reckon county numbers mattered. Same with Vaughan, he just picked guys he thought will deliver. They even had the guts to drop Graham Thrope from the Ashes.

 

[Immenso]

Based on his performance so far, we’d be better off going back to Santner!

statsguru reverse cumulative averages would suggest not.

Comparing Santner's last 6 tests, to Bracewell's thus far 6 match test career is not pretty.

You'd get a slightly better number 7, but a bowler who is twice as worse.

crude analysis, but ....

6 matches:
Batting: 206 runs, ave: 25.72
Bowling: 7 wickets, ave: 77.42

 

[Immenso]

I remember the England selections prior to the ashes 2005. Duncan Fletcher went the other way around, picked guys like Trescothick, Strauss, Simon Jones, Harmison etc... purely based on scouting them and ignoring the numbers in domestic cricket. The county guys then were quite pissed off with Fletcher for going on to pick players with no great domestic numbers attached to them but then Fletcher didn't reckon county numbers mattered. Same with Vaughan, he just picked guys he thought will deliver. They even had the guts to drop Graham Thrope from the Ashes.

Are you saying this is good or bad? Because couldn't I make the argument that this is how Bracewell was selected? Based on instinct rather than career numbers.

 

[Immenso]

I think the role that Santner occupied before and now Bracewell is a good one in a team that had a functioning top 5 and a functioning 4 man seam attack. But it is quite a hard one from a plublic expectations POV. I think I've said it on here before, but if Ravindra was batting 7 for the NZ team at the moment and taking zero-ish wickets he would be getting slaughtered in media, socials. I'm glad he's not there.

But, anyway. NZ no longer have the strong enough foundations in place in the other parts of the team to carry this role anymore, IMO. We need more bowling from our spinner because our 3rd/4th seamers have fallen off a cliff.

I'd have Ravindra in my team, he'd be batting 5. (above Mitchell and Blundell) He may, or may not ,bowl much.
I'd have Sodhi in my team, he'd be 4th bowler.

Both of those are slight punts, though, rather than slam-dunk certanties.

So, I think I agree with SteveNZ above in terms of personnel. I just don't agree with most that Macewell is useless. Although if he kept under-performing with the bat in the 'ideal' team balance of 2020ish he'd eventually lose his spot, like Santner.