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*Unofficial* New Zealand Black Caps Thread

The Hutt Rec

The Hutt Rec

International Vice-Captain
Flem274* said:
Hadn't realised GP had pipped WIll Young for average. Up at that level you really should be in test squads.

As should Mark Chapman, who seems another "if we must" player for the establishment. He's only played the 1 FC game this season and smoked a ton lol and his results have been very good for a long time now.

Also big ups to Greg Hay for scoring 150 in his first FC game all season at the age of 38.
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Important century for Hay who is getting close to Blackcaps selection age.
 
Flem274*

Flem274*

123/5
Despite our current frustrations, our selectors going back to Iain O'Brien have shown the Shield is pretty trustworthy for finding the best players (and the Ford Trophy even more so). A bit of a look through the contenders' Shield performances and comparisons to some sure starters.

I think these numbers demonstrate why even fans who are skeptical selectors are concerned. We're just yeeting in random FC players with the only consistent trait being a lot of experience, but even then we're leaving some promising and very experienced players on the sideline.

I also think it is frustratingly promising that despite players who you'd intuitively think would struggle more than others just by looking at the evidence are getting picked ahead of guys you would think are easy choices, the guys I wouldn't expect to be selected are still putting in some good performances. That's a victory for the system.

There are players with good records I left off here to stop it being a doom scroll. I don't think they're on the selection radar and they're not talked about by fans. Ray Toole, Ben Lister, Brett Randell, Fraser Sheat etc. They're core players for their domestic bowling attacks though and have better results than several listed.

Batsmen + Batting Allrounders

Kane Williamson - 2021 @ 54.62 (25 matches, 6 hundreds)
Devon Conway - 2054 @ 66.25 (22 matches, 5 hundreds)
Tom Latham - 3530 @ 47.06 (49 matches, 9 hundreds)
Daryl Mitchell - 3717 @ 37.55 + 74w @ 30.53 (69 matches, 8 hundreds, 1 5fer)
Tom Blundell - 3705 @ 37.42 (66 matches, 10 hundreds)

Henry Nicholls - 3207 @ 36.44 (54 matches, 3 hundreds)
Will Young - 4766 @ 42.17 (72 matches, 9 hundreds)
Glenn Phillips - 2402 @ 44.48 (33 matches, 5 hundreds)
Mark Chapman - 2193 @ 42.17 (33 matches, 4 hundreds)
Tom Bruce - 4537 @ 50.41 (62 matches, 8 hundreds) *Tom Bruce often bats at #5

Michael Bracewell - 5012 @ 33.63 + 26w @ 45.62 (91 matches, 10 hundreds, 1 5fer)
Rachin Ravindra - 1688 @ 37.51 + 30w @ 48.36 (27 matches, 4 hundreds, 0 5fers)
Cole McConchie - 3006 @ 36.65 + 40w @ 34.72 (54 matches, 7 hundreds, 0 5fers)

Bowlers + Bowling Allrounders

Tim Southee - 148w @ 20.83 (34 matches, 1 hundred, 10 5fers)
Trent Boult - 107w @ 23.97 (30 matches, 8 5fers)
Neil Wagner - 344w @ 26.40 (81 matches, 18 5fers)
Matt Henry - 204w @ 22.25 (45 matches, 8 5fers)
Kyle Jamieson - 91w @ 21.77 (25 matches, 6 5fers)

Blair Tickner - 159w @ 35.16 (52 matches, 5fers) *Very slow start to his career, average has plummeted.
Jacob Duffy - 228w @ 32.59 (76 matches, 10 5fers) *Debuted at 17, also a slow start to his career.
Lockie Ferguson - 141w @ 22.18 (35 matches, 11 5fers)
Ben Sears - 48w @ 23.79 (14 matches, 2 5fers)

Scott Kuggeleijn - 255w @ 32.60 + 3060 @ 28.60 (82 matches, 3 hundreds, 9 5fers)
Doug Bracewell - 240w @ 29.90 + 2895 @ 30.79 (72 matches, 2 hundreds, 7 5fers)
Nathan Smith - 75w @ 32.26 + 1272 @ 25.44 (36 matches, 1 hundred, 4 5fers) *Debuted at 17 also. Bowling average in freefall these days.
Henry Shipley - 55w @ 27.47 + 770 @ 25.66 (21 matches, 0 hundreds, 2 5fers)
 
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thundaboult

thundaboult

International Debutant
Days of Grace

Days of Grace

International Captain
Yeah, it looks like he's in denial at this stage. Unless he can bowl a heavy workload whilst keeping the pressure on then he is more of a hindrance to the current test lineup. He simply cannot perform his role anymore. Because of him and Tickner, Southee and Henry had to bowl more overs than they would have planned on.
 
F

Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
He is very unlikely to play in Bangladesh and will probably really struggle against Australia. He may do okay against SA, but that is more a reflection of SA batting than his bowling.
 
Flem274*

Flem274*

123/5
I love him but he looks far, far short of his peak. I don't want him to go down with a whimper. Better to retire with dignity and take the paycheck yeeting county batsmen.
 
S

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
Binkley said:
www.nzherald.co.nz

'Quite gutted hearing that': Black Caps hero responds after questions about future

Neil Wagner has delivered another ardent reminder that he is far from finished.
www.nzherald.co.nz www.nzherald.co.nz

Wags says he wants to continue playing, and doesn’t like hearing other people talk about his retirement.
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The thing to consider with that is that sheer bloody-mindedness saw Wags turn into a fringe SA domestic player into one of the most effective Test bowlers in our history.

You can't expect him to turn off that self belief and dogged spirit when the rest of us think/know it's time.

And it is time.

The person who needs to deliver that is Gary Stead. Unfortunately, Wags has a much greater social imprint on that side and I'm not sure that sort of decision could be delivered by someone who is not as bolted on as irreplaceable or hallowed in the environment.

Someone who could probably do it is Tim Southee, but he's not that sort of personality. I could see Baz in charge saying hey, you've been unreal but I want you to go out thinking you might be able to go on, rather than knowing you can't. But Tim isn't that guy.
 
thierry henry

thierry henry

International Coach
SteveNZ said:
The thing to consider with that is that sheer bloody-mindedness saw Wags turn into a fringe SA domestic player into one of the most effective Test bowlers in our history.
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It was a great post but as a pedant who can’t stand a false narrative I have to point out that this isn’t really true. Wagner was actually highly touted in SA (probably more than any of our other SA ‘imports’?), made a strong start to his FC career there, and came to NZ when he was very young, only 21 or 22. He was by no means struggling in SA (as distinct from him foreseeing issues in the future with quotas or whatever).

Also easy to forget that 2008-2012 Wagner in NZ domestic cricket was not seen as this wholehearted underdog trier, he was more like this shiny new glamour boy from SA who was pitching it up, swinging it at good pace and knocking stumps out of the ground.

Wagner has obviously earned the reputation he now has, but it’s a reputation that basically started in the midst of his international career when he was asked to play an unfamiliar role.
 
S

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
thierry henry said:
It was a great post but as a pedant who can’t stand a false narrative I have to point out that this isn’t really true. Wagner was actually highly touted in SA (probably more than any of our other SA ‘imports’?), made a strong start to his FC career there, and came to NZ when he was very young, only 21 or 22. He was by no means struggling in SA (as distinct from him foreseeing issues in the future with quotas or whatever).

Also easy to forget that 2008-2012 Wagner in NZ domestic cricket was not seen as this wholehearted underdog trier, he was more like this shiny new glamour boy from SA who was pitching it up, swinging it at good pace and knocking stumps out of the ground.

Wagner has obviously earned the reputation he now has, but it’s a reputation that basically started in the midst of his international career when he was asked to play an unfamiliar role.
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Good man, I appreciate the pedantry. I was under the impression he was behind the Morkels, Steyn, Nel and co - but that might have been franchise cricket?

For a LOL, someone should bring up the post(s) I made about Wagner was a new ball destroying overrated hype as a pace bowler, who would only be effective when the ball was reversing + would annoy the **** out of his fellow quicks by failing to land the ball on the seam. Why I think I have the right to dissect selection issues is on shaky ground based on that sort of hot take.
 
thierry henry

thierry henry

International Coach
SteveNZ said:
Good man, I appreciate the pedantry. I was under the impression he was behind the Morkels, Steyn, Nel and co - but that might have been franchise cricket?
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Oh yeah for sure, I wasn't saying he was on the cusp of a SA debut or anything and maybe what he foresaw in the future was the logjam for fast bowling spots which is almost always present in SA. Was just saying he was a very much "on the radar" 21 year old who had come through Academies, age group stuff etc and made a good start to his FC career. He wasn't a domestic journeyman, more like a touted prospect who took a gamble at a very young age on short term pain for long term gain.

For a LOL, someone should bring up the post(s) I made about Wagner was a new ball destroying overrated hype as a pace bowler, who would only be effective when the ball was reversing + would annoy the **** out of his fellow quicks by failing to land the ball on the seam. Why I think I have the right to dissect selection issues is on shaky ground based on that sort of hot take.
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lol, weren't there a few people saying that or is it actually purely you I'm remembering? My recollection is Wagner did very well in Plunket Shield and his test debut when he qualified was inevitable, with the rap on him being he was pretty quick, swung it and was generally an exciting, wicket-taking bowler. I think there was a bit of a backlash when he turned out to be 136-138 sort of pace, skiddy, with hit and miss seam position. We probably would have been happy with that a few years earlier but he came along right when Southee and Boult were on the way up and Wagner sort of looked like a poor man's Boult I guess.
 
S

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
thierry henry said:
lol, weren't there a few people saying that or is it actually purely you I'm remembering? My recollection is Wagner did very well in Plunket Shield and his test debut when he qualified was inevitable, with the rap on him being he was pretty quick, swung it and was generally an exciting, wicket-taking bowler. I think there was a bit of a backlash when he turned out to be 136-138 sort of pace, skiddy, with hit and miss seam position. We probably would have been happy with that a few years earlier but he came along right when Southee and Boult were on the way up and Wagner sort of looked like a poor man's Boult I guess.
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Haha I don't remember anyone joining me in this awful take...in fairness, around this time, I was generally regurgitating whatever I'd heard from the first class scene and people playing there (who at this stage, might've been bitter old stagers airing their displeasure with life).
 
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