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***Official*** Pakistan in New Zealand 2016/17

Blocky

Blocky

Banned
straw man said:
Waffle.
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Jeetan's wickets at county level mean even less than Astle's wickets at domestic first class level. They're pointless to consider in test considerations. I can't be bothered refuting any of your other points, you're seemingly favoring someone who has never done anything over someone who has won matches for his country.

England just lost to Bangladesh, but don't let that stop you judging how their county cricketers are against spinners.
 
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straw man

straw man

Hall of Fame Member
Jeez Blocky you are a tiresome debater. The hyperbole, the obsessiveness, the exasperated tone, the complete dismissal of other points of view 'Waffle', the rudeness coupled with your over-sensitive response if anyone is rude to you, the selectiveness, the absolute certainty that you're right even when you're saying things that are at the very least debatable if not plain wrong.

I mean, saying not just Craig but also Sodhi should be selected ahead of Jeets. That's laughable. But you're 100% sure you're right on all this and as usual you are going to bang on and on and on until everyone who disagrees with you stops bothering to respond. Does that feel like a victory to you?

I know this will meet deaf ears but you know that opinions are separate from your self, and that someone disagreeing with your opinions isn't attacking you? And that a reasonable person's first port of call when someone else presents an opinion shouldn't be to shout it down, ridicule and generally be as rude and dismissive as possible? You know that doesn't actually make you right on anything? It just makes people turn away.
 
Blocky

Blocky

Banned
straw man said:
Jeez Blocky you are a tiresome debater. The hyperbole, the obsessiveness, the exasperated tone, the complete dismissal of other points of view 'Waffle', the rudeness coupled with your over-sensitive response if anyone is rude to you, the selectiveness, the absolute certainty that you're right even when you're saying things that are at the very least debatable if not plain wrong.

I mean, saying not just Craig but also Sodhi should be selected ahead of Jeets. That's laughable. But you're 100% sure you're right on all this and as usual you are going to bang on and on and on until everyone who disagrees with you stops bothering to respond. Does that feel like a victory to you?

I know this will meet deaf ears but you know that opinions are separate from your self, and that someone disagreeing with your opinions isn't attacking you? And that a reasonable person's first port of call when someone else presents an opinion shouldn't be to shout it down, ridicule and generally be as rude and dismissive as possible? You know that doesn't actually make you right on anything? It just makes people turn away.
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I'm always right. The problem you have is that you take it as rudeness that I shut down your opinion as being wrong and unlike other people, I give reasons as to why you're wrong. That's a you problem, not a me problem.
 
straw man

straw man

Hall of Fame Member
No, I take rudeness as rudeness and take differing opinion as something to be discussed. However you cannot separate the two.
 
hendrix

hendrix

Hall of Fame Member
Craig's ceiling is definitely very high, I'm with Blocky there. In 5 years he could be very good.

But he's too lose right now, jeets the better pick for a holding spinner in nz conditions, and more likely to take advantage if there is turn.
 
Moss

Moss

International Vice-Captain
hendrix said:
Craig's ceiling is definitely very high, I'm with Blocky there. In 5 years he could be very good.

But he's too lose right now, jeets the better pick for a holding spinner in nz conditions, and more likely to take advantage if there is turn.
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The thing I've always felt with Jeets in test cricket is he starts out well, doesn't respond well enough when things don't go his way (which seems to be most of the time) and pretty much unable to bounce back once the batsmen get on top of him. In India it seemed like more of the same. Though I do recall him playing the holding role well enough during that Sri Lanka tour in late 2012.

Craig has his problems but seems to get better with more game time going by each of the series he played in, though he was terrible in Aus. Can't really comment on Astle since my knowledge of NZ domestic cricket is superficial, but the numbers seem to suggest he should be pushing for a test spot. Also I know this is a very unpopular view but I wouldn't mind the added batting ability that Craig or Astle could provide at number 8, of late the tail has been as good as useless.
 
S

Shortodds

School Boy/Girl Cricketer
SteveNZ said:
Raval and Astle in is not something that excites me or anyone that much.
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I'm a tad excited about Astle ftr. Always thought he was a tad hard done by to play one test - Which I think NZ won - and then effectively got replaced as second spinner/leg spinner by Ish Sodhi.
he went back to domestics and has been consistently the best performing spinner since but was always overlooked because we don't need two leg spinners.

First test is on his home ground, and its probably only until Satner gets better anyway. Definitely worth a shot IMO. I look forward to watching how he goes.
 
straw man

straw man

Hall of Fame Member
I find myself excited about Astle playing too, even if I don't really think it's a great choice to play him over Jeets. I won't say it's undeserved because he has put up the numbers season after season, and so I think he deserves a chance over Sodhi at least.

Noone is really excited about Raval's callup, though I think it's good selection policy. Best we can hope for is that he's out less frequently in the first five overs than Guptill, and perhaps that the next opener after Raval turns out to be better. I like having another left-handed opener though, considering Williamson and Taylor are right-handers.
 
Athlai

Athlai

Not Terrible
Kane Williamson (c)
Todd Astle
Trent Boult
Colin de Grandhomme
Matt Henry
Tom Latham
Henry Nicholls
Jimmy Neesham
Jeet Raval
Tim Southee
Ross Taylor
Neil Wagner
BJ Watling

Wow.
 
straw man

straw man

Hall of Fame Member
De Grandhomme is a pretty wtf selection. There as backup for Neesham, however if Neesham were to break then they would be far better to just play a batsman at 6. Probably Ronchi, who has been carried all around the world fairly undeservedly as a squad member and ironically, now he's actually played and scored some test runs, is dropped.
 
Blocky

Blocky

Banned
Common sense prevailed in regards to Patel, Guptill and to a lesser degree Sodhi.

Tastle is more of a "Well we'd like a #7 that can bat a little bit" selection which I disagree with.
 
S

SteveNZ

Cricketer Of The Year
Athlai said:
Kane Williamson (c)
Todd Astle
Trent Boult
Colin de Grandhomme
Matt Henry
Tom Latham
Henry Nicholls
Jimmy Neesham
Jeet Raval
Tim Southee
Ross Taylor
Neil Wagner
BJ Watling

Wow.
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Ha, wow. Everyone knows I love Dutchy like I love the cold side of the pillow but I never saw this coming. International teams do love their two-part players at 6 and 7, don't they. Neesham/Astle/Dutchy.

Presumably it's Henry and Dutchy that miss out for Hagley.

I know someone else was excited by Astle but does he really have the weapons to be a Test bowler? Doesn't turn his leg break that much, quite flat, no great variation...I'm not saying Ish deserves to be there at all but he does at least have a few more weapons in terms of a good wrong-un, bounce etc. Astle does have a much better grouping but I'm not really sure Pakistan will be too troubled by him. I really think we missed a trick by not picking Jeets if it's going to rag. I know who I'd want on day 5/fourth innings.
 
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