best team in world cricket right now

[smash84]

Lol, Stop flattering yourself man and making it all about you. I know you didn't mention Pakistan in that reply & never said nor implied you did. I explained why I felt it relevant to compare them to Pakistan. They've been a team touted as one of the better away sides in recent times, you only need look at the poll result in this thread to know that & it's only a month or so old.

Whether it was you or any other poster than mentioned India's bowling problems outside the SC I would have replied with that same point about them likely being better than Pakistan were in NZ.

Stop being so defensive & paranoid in thinking that reply was to have a crack at you.

Ummm, if you're quoting my post and making silly rants then at least you could have made it clear earlier that it wasn't against my post. It's stupid to quote other people's posts and harping about something irrelevant. Nothing paranoid about that. Just pointing out something that should obviously be followed at forums.

 

[social]

Australia up to 2nd

Well deserved

 

[Zinzan]

Ummm, if you're quoting my post and making silly rants then at least you could have made it clear earlier that it wasn't against my post. It's stupid to quote other people's posts and harping about something irrelevant. Nothing paranoid about that. Just pointing out something that should obviously be followed at forums.

I very clearly explained why I replied with that & why I felt it was relevant in a thread concerning the world's number side, a thread that has Pakistan well ahead in a poll taken just a few weeks ago. I also explained I would have replied with that regardless of who posted it. It was very much in context to both your post about India having weak away bowling & this thread.

The fact you don't think it's relevant doesn't make it so sorry. You don't get to decide what I think is relevant, especially when it concerns drawing a comparison between sides in a 'best team in the world' thread.

Last I'm saying on the matter.

 

[smash84]

I very clearly explained why I replied with that & why I felt it was relevant in a thread concerning the world's number side, a thread that has Pakistan well ahead in a poll taken just a few weeks ago. I also explained I would have replied with that regardless of who posted it. It was very much in context to both your post about India having weak away bowling & this thread.

The fact you don't think it's relevant doesn't make it so sorry. You don't get to decide what I think is relevant, especially when it concerns drawing a comparison between sides in a 'best team in the world' thread.

Last I'm saying on the matter.

Uhhh, yeah, well you clarified it later after I called you out for quoting my post and arguing a straw man. So yeah, you constantly bringing up Pakistan as a comparison point was totally irrelevant and it wasn't clear until you finally admitted that you were being stupid in quoting my post and making a point that was never in contention anyway.

 

[Zinzan]

Uhhh, yeah, well you clarified it later after I called you out for quoting my post and arguing a straw man. So yeah, you constantly bringing up Pakistan as a comparison point was totally irrelevant and it wasn't clear until you finally admitted that you were being stupid in quoting my post and making a point that was never in contention anyway.

Lol, I didn't admit to any such thing at all, you're now putting words into my mouth. I get you're probably still a little sore after the loss, but there's no need to resort to name-calling like 'me being stupid', I wasn't arguing against anything you said, I was adding to it & providing context, which for whatever reason went over your head. I've clarified that 20 times now.. I don't understand how you can't distinguish between the two things. There's no strawman involved when someone isn't claiming you said something to the contrary.

Perhaps have a rest for a while and chill out for a bit, & later perhaps have another big picture look at the context of your post again, my reply & the thread topic

Now for the sake of this thread, reply to me in VM if you need to and let's folks get back to the topic of "world's best team".

 

[smash84]

Lol, I didn't admit to any such thing at all, you're now putting words into my mouth. I get you're probably still a little sore after the loss, but there's no need to resort to name-calling like 'me being stupid', I wasn't arguing against anything you said, I was adding to it & providing context, which for whatever reason went over your head. I've clarified that 20 times now.. I don't understand how you can't distinguish between the two things. There's no strawman involved when someone isn't claiming you said something to the contrary.

Perhaps have a rest for a while and chill out for a bit, & later perhaps have another big picture look at the context of your post again, my reply & the thread topic

Now for the sake of this thread, reply to me in VM if you need to and let's folks get back to the topic of "world's best team".

haha, what name calling? You WERE being stupid and I called you out for it

Why would you want to provide context for something that I said, when it was totally irrelevant to the point that I was making?

I called you out on your silliness and you take offence. Well, maybe having a rest and chilling out for a bit would help you more than it would help me. Take your own advice there.

Btw, I thought you were having your last word on the matter in your previous post, according to your own self

 

[Zinzan]

I called you out on your silliness and you take offence. Well, maybe having a rest and chilling out for a bit would help you more than it would help me. Take your own advice there.

Nah, I couldn't be happier after that series...

Anyway back on topic, if I was forced to rank the sides based on how they actually look as Test units right at the moment, I'd rank them,

1) India
2) South Africa
3) England
4) Pakistan
5) Australia
6) Sri Lanka =New Zealand
8) West Indies

 

[subshakerz]

Have to say I am bitterly disappointed with the Pakistan team in this series. For some reason lacked the intensity and focus they had in England. Misbah not being there in the second test also hurt. So deservedly they should be downgraded.

However, I think it is fair to say that at this moment there is no leader of the pack. All of the teams are too seriously flawed to have one considered better than the rest. Looking at the schedule ahead, it will only be by mid-2017 when we can know with some confidence who is on top.

I will say that no way should India be placed ahead just on some home series performances, where they look unbeatable. They lost all their previous away series from subcontinent, except WI, and this new team is completely untested. We can only know how good they are once they start touring in end of 2017.

I think SA are a team on an upswing, so a good 2017 will establish them as leaders and remove the blemishes of their losses to England and India in 2015. I think wins in NZ and England next year would confirm them as no.1.

If Pakistan somehow win in Australia in early 2017, I could still place them as nominal no.1 and overlook the loss to NZ, but by then Misbah would be retiring and then team would be in flux, so it wouldnt mean much.

England are losing now to India and after that dont have any heavywieght series to prove themselves for a year or so until SA tour in 2017.

Australia are in disarray after losing to a weak Sri Lankan team and now at home to SA. Even if they beat Pakistan at home they are likely to be hammered by India soon after so I dont see them proving themselves no.1 anytime soon.

 

[Victor Ian]

A look at the best team while Australia has been crap.

Since 2013, teams at home have won 55% of their games and teams away only 24%
Therefore it is 2.3 times harder to win away from home, so home games are worth 1 point and away games are worth 2.3
I awarded the points as if teams had played 50 games home and 50 away to deal with home track hogs like England and Bangladesh.

This is what we have

Team	tests(h)	won(h)	rate(h)	tests(a)	won(a)	rate(a)	points(h)	points(a)	total
Australia	19	13	0.68	24	8	0.33	34	37.95	71.95
India	16	14	0.88	21	5	0.24	44	27.6	71.6
South Africa	19	11	0.58	12	4	0.33	29	37.95	66.95
Pakistan	16	9	0.56	18	6	0.33	28	37.95	65.95
Sri Lanka	17	10	0.59	14	4	0.29	29.5	33.35	62.85
New Zealand	16	9	0.56	21	5	0.24	28	27.6	55.6
England	28	16	0.57	20	4	0.2	28.5	23	51.5
Bangladesh	14	4	0.29	6	1	0.17	14.5	19.55	34.05
West Indies	16	6	0.38	13	0	0	19	0	19
Zimbabwe	9	2	0.22	5	0	0	11	0	11

West Indies away looks odd. It could indicate a mistake in my numbers, or that they really are that horrid. I couldn't be bothered investigating as it suits my preconceived bias. I counted Pakistan Neutral games as home games.

 

[Slifer]

Any ranking system that has Australia at anywhere close to the top is not to be taken seriously IMO

 

[Victor Ian]

Why not. We all know Australia is turd compared to past exploits but what is not realised is that they are still not so bad. It's just expectations. Most expect to go to Australia and be thoroughly Indiad (acknowledging India's awesome home record by using them as a verb). Now they are crap they have stooped to the second best home record. Most expect Australia to go away and get completely Windied. Now they are crap they are only equal best in away records.

Everyone accepts winning away is harder and worth more. That's all I did, and used a completely fair number to calculate it. (for the record, if you did not include Pakistan neutral games as 'home' and awarded them a 1.2 difficulty factor (or above) they were the best overall team)

I know it's hard to accept, but Australia are STILL in the mix for best team. Just goes to show how dire test cricket standards are at the moment. These teams people are talking about are not good, they are just a superior form of 'average'. That is why everything is changing so much at the moment.

 

[Furball]

Any ranking system that has Australia at anywhere close to the top is not to be taken seriously IMO

Why though?

Despite several glaring weaknesses, Australia's results in the last 3 years compare pretty favourably to anyone else. Sure, they've had 2 dismal outings in Asia, but they've also won Test series in South Africa, West Indies and New Zealand in that time frame and had a narrow 3-2 loss in England. And up to Perth, hadn't lost a home Test in 4 years.

Like it or not, their recent record puts them in the discussion, which is a reflection on everyone else that a team with such enormous batting flaws is legitimately in the discussion for number 1 side.

 

[Zinzan]

A look at the best team while Australia has been crap.

Since 2013, teams at home have won 55% of their games and teams away only 24%
Therefore it is 2.3 times harder to win away from home, so home games are worth 1 point and away games are worth 2.3
I awarded the points as if teams had played 50 games home and 50 away to deal with home track hogs like England and Bangladesh.

This is what we have

Team	tests(h)	won(h)	rate(h)	tests(a)	won(a)	rate(a)	points(h)	points(a)	total
Australia	19	13	0.68	24	8	0.33	34	37.95	71.95
India	16	14	0.88	21	5	0.24	44	27.6	71.6
South Africa	19	11	0.58	12	4	0.33	29	37.95	66.95
Pakistan	16	9	0.56	18	6	0.33	28	37.95	65.95
Sri Lanka	17	10	0.59	14	4	0.29	29.5	33.35	62.85
New Zealand	16	9	0.56	21	5	0.24	28	27.6	55.6
England	28	16	0.57	20	4	0.2	28.5	23	51.5
Bangladesh	14	4	0.29	6	1	0.17	14.5	19.55	34.05
West Indies	16	6	0.38	13	0	0	19	0	19
Zimbabwe	9	2	0.22	5	0	0	11	0	11

West Indies away looks odd. It could indicate a mistake in my numbers, or that they really are that horrid. I couldn't be bothered investigating as it suits my preconceived bias. I counted Pakistan Neutral games as home games.

Very simple, but relatively fair methodology. But since you have the information there, you might as well factor losses as distinguished from draws as well.

Interesting to see India and NZ have identical away records, I'm guessing NZ would have lost more of the games & India more draws.

 

[honestbharani]

Why not. We all know Australia is turd compared to past exploits but what is not realised is that they are still not so bad. It's just expectations. Most expect to go to Australia and be thoroughly Indiad (acknowledging India's awesome home record by using them as a verb). Now they are crap they have stooped to the second best home record. Most expect Australia to go away and get completely Windied. Now they are crap they are only equal best in away records.

Everyone accepts winning away is harder and worth more. That's all I did, and used a completely fair number to calculate it. (for the record, if you did not include Pakistan neutral games as 'home' and awarded them a 1.2 difficulty factor (or above) they were the best overall team)

I know it's hard to accept, but Australia are STILL in the mix for best team. Just goes to show how dire test cricket standards are at the moment. These teams people are talking about are not good, they are just a superior form of 'average'. That is why everything is changing so much at the moment.

That is all fine but by that logic, away draws have to be rated greater than home draws too, right? And you need factor in draws more.

 

[Groundking]

A look at the best team while Australia has been crap.

Since 2013, teams at home have won 55% of their games and teams away only 24%
Therefore it is 2.3 times harder to win away from home, so home games are worth 1 point and away games are worth 2.3
I awarded the points as if teams had played 50 games home and 50 away to deal with home track hogs like England and Bangladesh.

This is what we have

Team	tests(h)	won(h)	rate(h)	tests(a)	won(a)	rate(a)	points(h)	points(a)	total
Australia	19	13	0.68	24	8	0.33	34	37.95	71.95
India	16	14	0.88	21	5	0.24	44	27.6	71.6
South Africa	19	11	0.58	12	4	0.33	29	37.95	66.95
Pakistan	16	9	0.56	18	6	0.33	28	37.95	65.95
Sri Lanka	17	10	0.59	14	4	0.29	29.5	33.35	62.85
New Zealand	16	9	0.56	21	5	0.24	28	27.6	55.6
England	28	16	0.57	20	4	0.2	28.5	23	51.5
Bangladesh	14	4	0.29	6	1	0.17	14.5	19.55	34.05
West Indies	16	6	0.38	13	0	0	19	0	19
Zimbabwe	9	2	0.22	5	0	0	11	0	11

West Indies away looks odd. It could indicate a mistake in my numbers, or that they really are that horrid. I couldn't be bothered investigating as it suits my preconceived bias. I counted Pakistan Neutral games as home games.

The problem with this is the lack of appreciation for draws, and thus is inaccurate.

 

[Victor Ian]

Very simple, but relatively fair methodology. But since you have the information there, you might as well factor losses as distinguished from draws as well.

Interesting to see India and NZ have identical away records, I'm guessing NZ would have lost more of the games & India more draws.

New Zealand had 12 losses compared to India's 5.

I'm not sure appreciating a draw helps much. It could be said that a draw is just a loss, saved by time. I do not have the information to determine who had the 'best' of a draw and so decided to not bother. A win is the only thing a fan feels good about. The only time they feel good about a draw is when they were losing anyways, so there should be no reward for that.

At the moment, I am at home,and not avoiding work. We are stuck with the above, where Australia is best.

 

[Gob]

Team India

 

[Groundking]

New Zealand had 12 losses compared to India's 5.

I'm not sure appreciating a draw helps much. It could be said that a draw is just a loss, saved by time. I do not have the information to determine who had the 'best' of a draw and so decided to not bother. A win is the only thing a fan feels good about. The only time they feel good about a draw is when they were losing anyways, so there should be no reward for that.

At the moment, I am at home,and not avoiding work. We are stuck with the above, where Australia is best.

Or a draw is a win, when a loss looked likely all game, but the team manages to tough it out and survive.

I question whether you actually LIKE cricket if you don't think that appreciating draws helps much in regards to what team is better than what other team.

Australia are a far way from being the best team in the world right now, stop being daft.

 

[Slifer]

Why not. We all know Australia is turd compared to past exploits but what is not realised is that they are still not so bad. It's just expectations. Most expect to go to Australia and be thoroughly Indiad (acknowledging India's awesome home record by using them as a verb). Now they are crap they have stooped to the second best home record. Most expect Australia to go away and get completely Windied. Now they are crap they are only equal best in away records.

Everyone accepts winning away is harder and worth more. That's all I did, and used a completely fair number to calculate it. (for the record, if you did not include Pakistan neutral games as 'home' and awarded them a 1.2 difficulty factor (or above) they were the best overall team)

I know it's hard to accept, but Australia are STILL in the mix for best team. Just goes to show how dire test cricket standards are at the moment. These teams people are talking about are not good, they are just a superior form of 'average'. That is why everything is changing so much at the moment.

Umm no Oz are not remotely close to being the best team. They could smash Pakistan in the upcoming series, wouldn't make a difference. Win or draw when they tour India then you may have an argument.

Oz really should've been whitewashed by RSA. Their batting is brittle but I'll admit their bowling does have potential. For now it's: India, RSA and ENG in that order.

 

[Victor Ian]

Tongue was firmly in cheek yeah. But seriously, Australia are the winningest team around, but also very adept at losing too. I'll post something accounting for draws later just to make Indian fans happy. They are the best drawcard. South Africa have an amazing away record. They do not lose 66% of the time. That is significantly better than the rest. Then England...
I do value the draw. I have been waiting so long to see Australia battle out a draw. If they have done that recently then I missed it and am very sad for it.