Vaughan resigns as England captain... so does Collingwood

[tooextracool]

Is Key even considered that good a captain?

He has always been considered to be extremely bright and generally made a pretty good impression in the dressing room during his last stint with the national side in 2004. Wouldnt be surprising if he is a good captain for Kent.

 

[Woodster]

Yes Key is talked very highly of from those on the County circuit.

 

[tooextracool]

One name not yet discussed is Cook. Again, this wouldn't necessarily be my choice but I am throwing it out there. Seems to have a reasonably safe place in the team, and going with someone that young hasn't exactly backfired for South Africa.

I am not advocating that he should get the job but I am surprised he hasn't been mentioned. He is only about 9 Tests less experienced than Pietersen.

Cook has enough problems to worry about as it is. Arguably, one of the worst batsmen in the England side at the moment and probably the most fortunate. Maybe in a few years.

 

[howardj]

They can't be serious if they pick KP. By his own admission, he has next to zero captaincy experience. Further, he lacks the people skills, the man management skills, the political skills, to be an effective captain.

 

[tooextracool]

Tim Abrahams on location from a car park outside the place they're holidng the press conference at - "a source close to the England team is claiming it"...

Also, Vaughan's place in the side? Gone, IMO. Probably in retirement from International cricket.

Yeah seriously, people need to realize that the chances of Vaughan making a return as a batsman is 0.0001%. He has what, 1/4th of a county season left and by the time we get around to the Ashes next year, he would have had less than half of a season and he'll be almost 35. The likelyhood of recalling a 35 year old is almost nill, even when your name is Ramprakash.

 

[Woodster]

They can't be serious if they pick KP. By his own admission, he has next to zero captaincy experience. Further, he lacks the people skills, the man management skills, the political skills, to be an effective captain.

People skills,man management skills etc remain to be seen. These will only be seen when he is placed in a position of such responsibility.

There are all different skills and different ways to lead a side, and tbf he is certainly a guy that will lead by example. How he reacts when players are not doing as he expects them to do we will have to wait and see.

 

[Woodster]

Yeah seriously, people need to realize that the chances of Vaughan making a return as a batsman is 0.0001%. He has what, 1/4th of a county season left and by the time we get around to the Ashes next year, he would have had less than half of a season and he'll be almost 35. The likelyhood of recalling a 35 year old is almost nill, even when your name is Ramprakash.

Vaughan is still a very fine Test cricketer and it would come as no surprise should he make a large amount of runs in the remainder of this season and really give the selectors a headache.

 

[Scaly piscine]

I'm more worried about KP's performance dropping even further if he's named captain, I think the captaincy itself we won't know til he does it for a while if he'll be any good at it or not.

 

[tooextracool]

They can't be serious if they pick KP. By his own admission, he has next to zero captaincy experience. Further, he lacks the people skills, the man management skills, the political skills, to be an effective captain.

Probably, but whats the alternative?
Flintoff should never again come close to captaincy.
Strauss has enough problems holding a regular place in the side
Key isnt even in the side.
Cook is not ready yet.
Collingwood just resigned.
The next realistic alternative is Ian Bell and hes arguably even worse at all the above mentioned skills.
Its unfortunate, because our 2 best captains will both be playing county cricket the next year when the Ashes come around.

 

[tooextracool]

Vaughan is still a very fine Test cricketer and it would come as no surprise should he make a large amount of runs in the remainder of this season and really give the selectors a headache.

How many games does he have for Yorkshire this season? Id be very surprised if he turns around what has been 5 years of disastrous form by the end of the month.

 

[tooextracool]

I'm not actually totally sure he did, but I think Geoff Miller and possibly quite a few others have stated they don't want him to.

Wouldnt be surprised. Flintoff is actually brave enough (or dumb enough, you pick) to think that he could still lead England.

 

[tooextracool]

Sky taking the line that Geoff Miller, National Selector, is pretty keen on having the same captain for both formats - and if that's the case, then Pietersen is the only man whose place is guaranteed in both sides. I think it's nailed on.

The more interesting question for me right now is who will bat three in place of Vaughan. Shah or Key?

Key hopefully. Would much prefer Shah at 6.

 

[Woodster]

I'm more worried about KP's performance dropping even further if he's named captain, I think the captaincy itself we won't know til he does it for a while if he'll be any good at it or not.

Yes especially with him being so far out of nick ????

 

[Woodster]

How many games does he have for Yorkshire this season? Id be very surprised if he turns around what has been 5 years of disastrous form by the end of the month.

5 years of disastrous form ???? Do me a favour. He must have been as absolute world great prior to that to maintain a Test batting average in excess of 40 now!!!

 

[tooextracool]

Well, Graeme Smith claims two England captains (ie, they resign mid-series in a series against his SA). Dead-set, if you'd told anyone that in May 2003, they'd have laughed in your face.

Honestly dont think Smith had much to do with Hussain's resignation. Hussain was going regardless. Its not even like Hussain lost his last test as captain.

 

[tooextracool]

5 years of disastrous form ???? Do me a favour. He must have been as absolute world great prior to that to maintain a Test batting average in excess of 40 now!!!

So what would you call this then:

http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru...;spanval1=span;template=results;type=allround

Exclude Bdesh and its actually 34. Sorry but if thats even close to acceptable in this day and age then it explains why England are as poor as they are lately. He has maintained his average above 40, but thats only because, once upon a time it was 50.

 

[Nibbles]

Put it this way, if you saw your captain have a moment of stupidity similar to that that KP had on Friday, would it fill you with confidence?

And besides, his whole manner suggests an air of, invincibility. That to me rings alarm bells. Vaughan was/is a gentleman, as are a number of people in the side (and ex captains!), which has seen them become great captains. I really really dont think KP is that kind of person!

Its one thing being passionate but another to keep your composure ALL the time which a captain needs to do!

 

[Woodster]

So what would you call this then:

http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru...;spanval1=span;template=results;type=allround

Exclude Bdesh and its actually 34. Sorry but if thats even close to acceptable in this day and age then it explains why England are as poor as they are lately. He has maintained his average above 40, but thats only because, once upon a time it was 50.

I'm not for one minute suggesting he's not had his problems. Injuries which you obviously have not taken into consideration which result in large spells out of the game, have indeed effected his form.

 

[PavlovsDog]

Put it this way, if you saw your captain have a moment of stupidity similar to that that KP had on Friday, would it fill you with confidence?

And besides, his whole manner suggests an air of, invincibility. That to me rings alarm bells. Vaughan was/is a gentleman, as are a number of people in the side (and ex captains!), which has seen them become great captains. I really really dont think KP is that kind of person!

Its one thing being passionate but another to keep your composure ALL the time which a captain needs to do!

My hope is that with the added responsibility of the captaincy, the moments of stupidity that you mention, may well be reduced.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Put it this way, if you saw your captain have a moment of stupidity similar to that that KP had on Friday, would it fill you with confidence?

Beats the captain regularly getting out for 0 Personally id bring Horton in Vaughans empty place and make Strauss captain. But with collingwood gone they will almost certainly want the same captain for both forms. Which almost certainly means Pietersen. Who knows, maybe it will make him more responsible when it comes to his innings.