Vaughan resigns as England captain... so does Collingwood

[Uppercut]

That 1 incident (and the conservative right and its pursiut of Clinton) clogged all politics and prevented the government working.

That 'quickie' (and the fallout) tied up the President, Congress and Senate and prevented any real legislation and discussion on other important issues.

The calls for his impeachment (as he lied under oath) nearly caused the shortterm breakdown of democracy in the United States.

See, this was what i referred to earlier as "American politics being ridiculous". The problem wasn't Clinton's infidelity, it was the country's reaction to it when he should have been given a slap on the wrist and told to get on with his job. What i said was not, "personal life doesn't affect your ability to do a job" but "personal life shouldn't affect your ability to do a job". It was the inability to let such things go that cost Ireland independent unity under CS Parnell in the 19th century and subsequently the formation of unionism brought with it all kinds of **** for this country that still haven't completely gone away.

Lying under oath is a different matter entirely, because that isn't his personal life.

 

[Goughy]

See, this was what i referred to earlier as "American politics being ridiculous". The problem wasn't Clinton's infidelity, it was the country's reaction to it when he should have been given a slap on the wrist and told to get on with his job. What i said was not, "personal life doesn't affect your ability to do a job" but "personal life shouldn't affect your ability to do a job". It was the inability to let such things go that cost Ireland independent unity under CS Parnell in the 19th century and subsequently the formation of unionism brought with it all kinds of **** for this country that still haven't completely gone away.

Lying under oath is a different matter entirely, because that isn't his personal life.

The lying under oath wouldnt have happened if he hadnt have done what he did.

Anyway, we digress.

Regarding the cricket, the England cricket captain involves far more that just what happens once he crosses the white line. He is the face and the representivie of the England and Wales Cricket Board and all the people, groups and sponsors that encapsulates.

I dont believe that athletes should generaly be role models. Their job is to play sport.

However, once promoted from an ordinary foot soldier, then a captains behaviour should be subject to greater scrutiny as he is no longer just representing himself. He is the figurehead of an organisation and must act as such.

An inability to comprehend that should automatically exclude anyone from being considered.

A leadership role carries responsibilities greater than the norm.

 

[zaremba]

EDIT: post deleted and transferred to the poll about who should replace MV

 

[cover drive man]

It shouldn't have though. That was just American politics being ridiculous as per usual. Personal life should not affect your ability to do a job, whether it be US president, captain of Australia or captain of England.

I know that, but the media doesn't

Politician and sportsmen are different things though. Politicians give us waffle about morals and such when they get elected, don't think this will be KPs route to office. Anyway Clinton served two terms which is all you can do in the states. Gave Letterman and Leno something to make jokes about, will be forgotten in 20 years time. Hardly Watergate was it?

Anyway I don't know why I got into this, I passionately hope the ****e won't be our captain. So if it counts against him, YAY.

The role of England captain though is looked up to by thousands of people in the UK and can be a role model to young people though.

 

[sledger]

My two cents:


firstly, fair enough, as has been said already Vaughan has not been playing well, and essentially does not warrant a place in the side, it's a shame, as I've always been a fan of his, but if he feels he doesnt want to do it anymore, then this is really the best move for both him and the team, hopefully he can return at some point in the future as a batsman.

However, the concern for me is not the fact that Vaughan is gone, but who to replace him.

Like Richard I would rather Strauss take the captaincy, but his place in the team is hardly secure in itself, in fact it could be argued that there is a case for dropping him (though I hope not), worryingly this makes the most likely candidate for the captaincy KP, which I am largely against, because I don't think he would do a great job as the skipper, and secondly if it has an adverse effect on his batting....well, that would damage the already frail batting line up even further.

Will be interesting to see who comes in to replace Vaughan now though...

 

[Uppercut]

The lying under oath wouldnt have happened if he hadnt have done what he did.

Anyway, we digress.

Regarding the cricket, the England cricket captain involves far more that just what happens once he crosses the white line. He is the face and the representivie of the England and Wales Cricket Board and all the people, groups and sponsors that encapsulates.

I dont believe that athletes should generaly be role models. Their job is to play sport.

However, once promoted from an ordinary foot soldier, then a captains behaviour should be subject to greater scrutiny as he is no longer just representing himself. He is the figurehead of an organisation and must act as such.

An inability to comprehend that should automatically exclude anyone from being considered.

A leadership role carries responsibilities greater than the norm.

I suppose, but i still feel cricket should be an infinitely bigger consideration. It's a lot worse publicity for your captain to lose 3 series out of 5 than sleep with a page 3 girl.

 

[Langeveldt]

One of my favourite non-SA players.. Hope he returns and finds some form in the future.. Reckon they should probably go for KP as his replacement..

 

[Richard]

AS I say, don't care, wouldn't read it. If he won cricket matches, he could go through a monastery. Maybe was why Shane Warne wasn't made captain of Oz, but I think the selectors were wrong on that one. On-field activities should be the only thing in consideration.

Really does amaze me that anyone would honestly think this.

 

[Richard]

?

Hank Marvin? of The Shadows?

Aye, simply picked a random name there. Couldn't even remember for certain who Hank Marvin was TBH, guess his name popped into my head because of the "Hank" connection to Tom Hanks (who BTW is my favourite actor, that's why I used him as an example there).

Could just as possibly have said Frank Bruno or Ted Griffiths.

Anyway, Ive been around sports long enough to not believe a word of resignation or retirement press conferences (most recent see Brett Favre). People are leant on and pressured and a day/a week/ a month or so later regret being allowed to be pushed and influenced.

Maybe there might be some false stuff, a fair bit maybe even, but you're surely not suggesting that all resignation press-conferences are packed with lies?

I just think this is best for the management as it keeps the Test captain as high in presige and cash as the T20 capt and takes away the awkward possibility of the T20 captain earning double that of the Test captain.

I don't doubt that for a second.

 

[Richard]

I suppose, but i still feel cricket should be an infinitely bigger consideration. It's a lot worse publicity for your captain to lose 3 series out of 5 than sleep with a page 3 girl.

Is it?

Both can potentially be hugely damaging to the prospects of the game. Like it or not, people expect England captains to be role-models. And if they're not, some mummies of a certain type are sometimes more reluctant to let their kids start playing the game. It might not be ideal, but that's the way it is.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

Aye, simply picked a random name there. Couldn't even remember for certain who Hank Marvin was TBH, guess his name popped into my head because of the "Hank" connection to Tom Hanks (who BTW is my favourite actor, that's why I used him as an example there).

Could just as possibly have said Frank Bruno or Ted Griffiths.

Maybe there might be some false stuff, a fair bit maybe even, but you're surely not suggesting that all resignation press-conferences are packed with lies?

I don't doubt that for a second.

Hank Marvin is excusable as he could be confused with actor Lee Marvin, but I can't believe Frank Bruno could have found his way into the sentence without the phrase "wait a minute he's not an actor" springing to mind.

 

[Uppercut]

Is it?

Both can potentially be hugely damaging to the prospects of the game. Like it or not, people expect England captains to be role-models. And if they're not, some mummies of a certain type are sometimes more reluctant to let their kids start playing the game. It might not be ideal, but that's the way it is.

Pahaha.

"Mummy, can i join the school cricket team?"
"I don't know Jimmy. Kevin Pietersen plays cricket, and he slept with a model once. I'm worried that if i let you play cricket you'll end up sleeping with models too. And noone wants that."
" Okay mum... *returns to playing world of warcraft*"

I don't see it.

 

[grecian]

This is a ridiculous argument, KP slept with a couple of people before marriage (I really can't believe such a thing is legal ), as far as I know he hasn't shagged around since. So if we're to appoint people on whether they could be unfaithful, then I suggest we get a trappist monk in. The only person that has lost this job over such a thing was Mike Gatting. I can't really say he seemed the type to have an intimate relationship with a bar-maid, a bar-snack, maybe.

I did say that it wouldn't matter to me what they did, but I agree it would matter to others. I think this is nonsense personally and pandering to a hypocritical, prurient press mentality, whilst slagging that press off at the same time. Yet I guess it could be a reason not to appoint him. It shouldn't be though, IMHO.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

This is a ridiculous argument, KP slept with a couple of people before marriage (I really can't believe such a thing is legal ), as far as I know he hasn't shagged around since. So if we're to appoint people on whether they could be unfaithful, then I suggest we get a trappist monk in. The only person that has lost this job over such a thing was Mike Gatting. I can't really say he seemed the type to have an intimate relationship with a bar-maid, a bar-snack, maybe.

I did say that it wouldn't matter to me what they did, but I agree it would matter to others. I think this is nonsense personally and pandering to a hypocritical, prurient press mentality, whilst slagging that press off at the same time. Yet I guess it could be a reason not to appoint him. It shouldn't be though, IMHO.

You'd be surprised what trappist monks get up to when the lights go out.

 

[Richard]

Hank Marvin is excusable as he could be confused with actor Lee Marvin, but I can't believe Frank Bruno could have found his way into the sentence without the phrase "wait a minute he's not an actor" springing to mind.

As I said, I wasn't looking for actors - simply plucking a random name.

If I'd wanted another actor, funnily enough I'd simply have used the name of another actor.

 

[Richard]

Pahaha.

"Mummy, can i join the school cricket team?"
"I don't know Jimmy. Kevin Pietersen plays cricket, and he slept with a model once. I'm worried that if i let you play cricket you'll end up sleeping with models too. And noone wants that."
" Okay mum... *returns to playing world of warcraft*"

I don't see it.

You're not (I presume) a strange-minded mother. You wouldn't.

I've seen too many of the types that judge a whole sport by 1 or 2 players, especially national captains of the only teams they know a thing about. And some women of certain generations for some reason don't like the idea that a guy played around a bit. It's a trifle nonsensical, but it's the way it is.

 

[Richard]

This is a ridiculous argument, KP slept with a couple of people before marriage (I really can't believe such a thing is legal ), as far as I know he hasn't shagged around since. So if we're to appoint people on whether they could be unfaithful, then I suggest we get a trappist monk in. The only person that has lost this job over such a thing was Mike Gatting. I can't really say he seemed the type to have an intimate relationship with a bar-maid, a bar-snack, maybe.

Who even mentioned unfaithfulness?

 

[Goughy]

This is a ridiculous argument, KP slept with a couple of people before marriage (I really can't believe such a thing is legal ), as far as I know he hasn't shagged around since. So if we're to appoint people on whether they could be unfaithful, then I suggest we get a trappist monk in. The only person that has lost this job over such a thing was Mike Gatting. I can't really say he seemed the type to have an intimate relationship with a bar-maid, a bar-snack, maybe.

I did say that it wouldn't matter to me what they did, but I agree it would matter to others. I think this is nonsense personally and pandering to a hypocritical, prurient press mentality, whilst slagging that press off at the same time. Yet I guess it could be a reason not to appoint him. It shouldn't be though, IMHO.

Ive never said I have an issue with who he sleps with. Quite frankly all the best. The 2 main reasons to go into sport is the cash and the women.

My argument is that off field activities play an important role in an England captain. Nothing specific about KP apart from the fact I dont think he is best suited to the diplomatic aspect of the job.

 

[Lillian Thomson]

As I said, I wasn't looking for actors - simply plucking a random name.

If I'd wanted another actor, funnily enough I'd simply have used the name of another actor.

 

[grecian]

Ive never said I have an issue with who he sleps with. Quite frankly all the best. The 2 main reasons to go into sport is the cash and the women.

My argument is that off field activities play an important role in an England captain. Nothing specific about KP apart from the fact I dont think he is best suited to the diplomatic aspect of the job.

Well, the original post from CDM, was about who KP'd slept with. Private lives should be that IMO. I also don't see why sleeping with a few agreeable girls before marriage even hints at impropriety, either.

I whole-heartedly agree with you about KP's lack of aptness for the job. I renege on my earlier comments where I hinted that winning's all that matters. It isn't, of course, and I said earlier in the day that Colly should not captain England again, because of the "kiwi run-out" incident. Cricket is the sport we love because the ethics of the game, and the way the England captain purports himself in public is important, but this, is in my mind, different to what he does behind closed doors. KP has shown some ridiculous lacks of judgement in his words to the press, which of course will influence how we do on the field of play.

That comment about how he wanted to smash New Zealand in every match, back-fired spectacularly, couldn't of giving them more incentive. Not that it might of made any difference, they were a better ODI side then them, but still.....