Trescothick is overated.

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Clearly I have to learn to speak English...:P

 

[Rik]

Clearly I have to learn to speak English...:P

Looks like I need to brush up on my American again...ain't been back there in a while :rolleyes:

 

[lord_of_darkness]

Trescothick is a good player... you cant call him crap because of maybe 6 poor games , avgs quoted by someone before are good and cant all be done by fluke at thhe highest level in cricket..

Although if you wanna talk about over rated Key is pretty over rated.. i dont know why he keeps getting call ups im sure by the number of County teams there are in england there should be people better than Key?

As suggested the guy called Strauss .. Whats his avg like in County and how is he like as a batsmen?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Trescothick is a good player and I agree that he should certainly not be dropped after just a few poor perfomances. Everyone has a run of bad form at some point.

Didn't someone once say 'Take all the runs you can when they're flowing, because there won't always come' ? This is very true.

Re: Key. It's a bit sad how his career has deteriorated somewhat. A year ago, he was scoring buckets if I remember rightly. Since his Australia 170odd however, he has really seemed to struggle in all forms.

 

[Craig]

I wouldnt say Key is over-rated. I mean he is batting out of position and should bat in his normal position - OPENING. He opens for Kent, so shouldnt open for England given the opportunity?

 

[marc71178]

I wouldnt say Key is over-rated. I mean he is batting out of position and should bat in his normal position - OPENING. He opens for Kent, so shouldnt open for England given the opportunity?

We have an established pair though.

Quite a lot of English County Openers are debutted in the middle order, Vaughan for example.

It is a slightly less pressured introduction to the highest level.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

But even Vaughan struggled somewhat upon his introduction.

 

[Craig]

Why do you think I have said that he should open given the chance?

I have felt that Vaughan was better off in the middle order, but you cant take away the runs he has scored as an opener cant deny that the move was a success.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I think it would be very much unfair to replace Trescothick in the opening position, far more so if he's replaced by a repeated failure such as Key. Tresco has done alot for England in the last 3 years and he shouldn't be treated that way.

 

[Mr. P]

Agreed. England must stick with trescothick. He is just in the middle of a form slump. He is a good batsman, and will get out of it, as many others have. A great example is steve waugh. Was it not a few months back that everyone was calling for his head? Now hes scoring runs like a tank and it seems like the aussis couldn't do without him. Ponting is another good example. (india )

 

[Bazza]

I understood what Liam meant about Trescothick being streaky. Maybe it's because I follow baseball too! Definitely an American term that really. It just means he can have a great run (like in the ODIs) then suddenly appear to struggle (like this series). Hopefully he'll start blowing hot again soon.

Anyway re the article mentioned by Andre, I thought it had some good points - Trescothick is an excellent opener in ODIs where he plays his natural attacking game and takes it to the bowlers by playing shots. It's difficult to do that in tests and he needs to tough out the periods where bowlers dominate (typically early on with the new ball). Often he seems to lack the temperament for this and maybe like Tendulkar, Waugh and Gilchrist he would have more success lower down. Of course this mean finding an opener.

However I wouldn't want to change Vaughan, Butcher and Hussain at 2,3,4 which means if Trescothick goes to 5 there is no room for Thorpe or a new middle order player (Flintoff will move to 6 after this match with Read at 7). Therefore it makes sense to leave Trescothick where he is, knowing that another hot streak isn't far away.

I also agree with Marc, Strauss should go on tour as 'reserve' opener, and maybe Ed Smith who could bat in the middle order. I guess it's rare though to take two back up batsmen so maybe one will miss out, or maybe they will both be given a chance in Bangladesh? Anyway that's for next week.....

 

[Bazza]

Forgot to add that Trescothick could only be overrated if everyone was calling him a truly world class batsman, which I don't think anyone is. He is a solid international player who should enjoy a very decent international career, especially in ODIs, his stronger suit.

He averages 39 in tests and 38 in ODIs (SR 86) and that's a good record for an opener, especially in England.

I mean Tendulkar (44, 86), Ganguly (43, 74) and Hayden (42, 79) are the only current openers with better averages in ODIs, and Trescothick has a higher SR than all of them, so I guess he could only really be overrated in tests where he could do with a bit more consistency agreed, although maybe it's just not in his nature and we have to accept him for what he is.


Also for Reuben's benefit, Andy Strauss averages 41 in FC cricket, but more importantly, he's averaged 44 and 48 the last two seasons, and this season averages 50 so far, which suggests he has steadily improved over the last 3 years from an ordinary county player to a very good one.

He is 26 and apparently plays grade cricket in Sydney during the winter with Mosman.

 

[marc71178]

I also agree with Marc, Strauss should go on tour as 'reserve' opener, and maybe Ed Smith who could bat in the middle order. I guess it's rare though to take two back up batsmen so maybe one will miss out, or maybe they will both be given a chance in Bangladesh? Anyway that's for next week.....

Who says Smith won't be going as a first choice player?

I can't see Hussain AND Thorpe both going owing to age, and form (and reliability) would dictate that Hussain will be almost impossible to leave out.

 

[Rik]

Agreed. England must stick with trescothick. He is just in the middle of a form slump. He is a good batsman, and will get out of it, as many others have. A great example is steve waugh. Was it not a few months back that everyone was calling for his head? Now hes scoring runs like a tank and it seems like the aussis couldn't do without him. Ponting is another good example. (india )

Yeah well Steve Waugh's return to form needs only one word to explain:

Bangladesh

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Yeah well Steve Waugh's return to form needs only one word to explain:

Bangladesh

Actually, it's two words and they are West Indies.

That is unless you wish to disregard his 226 runs in 4 innings with a hundred at 75.33....

 

[lord_of_darkness]

Andy Strauss averages 41 in FC cricket, but more importantly, he's averaged 44 and 48 the last two seasons, and this season averages 50 so far

A good replacement for a choice of opener for England then.. they dont have to kick Tresco Out. ofcourse not that wouldnt be a wise move , maybe they can give Ed Smith a rest.?

They could think of moving tresco down to 3 or maybe down to play 4-5 ... who knows he could do better then..

The thing is they need to give Strauss a go soon, if hes improving season after season and he isint look over, he might realize that he isint being looked at and then pressure and stress will relate to his slow downfall..

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

They could think of moving tresco down to 3 or maybe down to play 4-5 ... who knows he could do better then..

Butcher is very comfortable at 3, so I don't think he should be moved.

 

[Craig]

I think it would be very much unfair to replace Trescothick in the opening position, far more so if he's replaced by a repeated failure such as Key. Tresco has done alot for England in the last 3 years and he shouldn't be treated that way.

Ok what has he done a lot? I seem to have my head in sand or my brain is playing tricks on me. Except for the Zimbabwe Test series, his Test debut, and the Pakistan tour of England in 2001, I have seen every Trescothick Test after that.

A few half centuries a couple of 100s, being dropped a lot when he bats, quite a few failures and his inability to move his feet when he first starts off. Sounds to me as a very inconsistant player.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Alot of batsmen fail to move their feet when they start an innings...

But let us examine the enigma that is Trescothick....

Career 2514 @ 39.28 : 3 100's, 18 50's

Series by Series

v WI : 190 @ 47.5
v Pak: 149 @ 24.83
v SL: 248 @ 41.33
v Pak: 163 @ 54.33
v Aus: 321 @ 32.10
v Ind: 240 @ 48
v NZ: 172 @ 28.66
v SL: 354 @ 88.5
v Ind: 115 @ 115
v Aus: 261 @ 26.10
v Zim 102 @ 51
v SA 199 @ 28.42

That's not as inconsistent as you make it out to be.

Through his first 69 Test innings the following players had the following runs.

ME Waugh - 2743
SR Waugh - 2127
MA Atherton - 2730
DL Haynes -2508
JL Langer - 2679

I think we'll agree that the batsmen named are a bit above run-of-the-mill. I stick by my original comment that Trecothick has done well for England thus far in his career.

 

[Craig]

True a lot of batsmen dont move their feet, but he does make a bad habit of his and it is something that Jason Gillespie (despite that he is a class bowler) has picked Tresocthick up.

And have you noticed a trend that he has done well on the sub contenient and not as well away from it?