The Australian team - A disgrace to the game

[GotSpin]

I think a good idea is to lock the thread haha

 

[C_C]

somehow i think i know a bit more about Australian culture then you KIDDO

it was totally irrelevant

learn to differentiate between culture and history.
Its not that hard if you got a brain.
And learn to understand what i meant by the statement you are referring to.
Apparently reading between the lines and logical deductions are not your forte.

 

[hourn]

have only just entered this thread (can't remember if i've posted on it before, but if i did it would've been a while ago) so don't know what has been said but anyway, here goes.

Just because the Australian's sledge, doesn't mean it is neccesarilly racist sledging. Every now and then it does go overboard, i.e. Darren Lehmann's black **** remark a couple of years ago, but generally the Australian sledging, whilst being personal and can be quite downright offensive i don't think it really ever crosses the line of race and religion.

Every international team in the world has it's share of sledgers, and every team has it's share of quieter guys. It's probably because Australia has 11 guys coming at the batsmen the entire time that people give them the tag of worst sledgers on the field. It doesn't neccesarilly mean that those 11 are individually the biggest sledgers - but when they come together they create an intense pressure cooker atmosphere for the batsmen.

From what i can understand, the 2 biggest individual sledgers going around are Harbhajan Singh and Graeme Smith (and wasn't the latter the one who originally complained about the Aussies after making his debut....).

My personal preference is that I dont mind if sledging gets personal. For me, i don't care if it gets personal or even completely abusive. It should never get racial however.

Completely abusive sledging, i.e. McGrath v Sarwan and Slater v Dravid, should be dealt with by ICC and match referees. These are instances that aren't particularly offensive but are just very animated and don't shed a good light on the game.

Racial sledging should be dealt with even more harshly, as this is something that should never come into the game, and by and large i think it is. But People have to remember that just because a white person sledges a black person or vice versa, it is not neccesarilly racial, and 99% of the time it isn't. McGrath v Sarwan was not racial, but it was abusive.

Personal sledging, to the point where people watching don't realize it's happening, is not a problem for me. Provided someone is not putting a bad light on the game (if someone watching on tv doesn't realise it's happening, then that can't be putting a bad light on the game) then they can do what they want.

If Shane Warne, Graeme Smith, Inzamam-ul-Haq, or whoever wants to stand at first slip and comment to the batsmen how "he would like to take his bat out of his hands and shove it up his girlfriends *you know where*" then they can do that, and it's upto the batsmen to put that out of his mind and play each shot on his merits. If he gets annoyed at that and tries to hard Warney out of the park when he comes onto bowl next over and gets caught then that's his own fault.

 

[benchmark00]

learn to differentiate between culture and history.
Its not that hard if you got a brain.
And learn to understand what i meant by the statement you are referring to.
Apparently reading between the lines and logical deductions are not your forte.

lol hmm lets not get into the person who is 'smart' and who is 'dumb'... somehow i dont think youd be able to defend yourself in a battle of wits... if you knew about my education i think youd think otherwise

 

[C_C]

lol hmm lets not get into the person who is 'smart' and who is 'dumb'... somehow i dont think youd be able to defend yourself in a battle of wits... if you knew about my education i think youd think otherwise

And you know my education and academic achievements. Right ? And if you

think i cant defend myself in my strongest attribute (logical discourse), i say "BRING IT ON!!"

Hourn- well constructed, though i disagree on several issues.
Firstly, i dont think abusive stuff should be a part of cricket. I dunno about you but abusive languages arnt exactly something i would condone.
besides, i think you do a lot more damage by a witty but clean remark than a comment littered with cuss words.

As for the biggest sledgers- my understanding is the biggest sledger in the game today is McGrath.
Plus i've quoted numerous incidents where OZ have gotten off with just as serious, if no more serious misbehaviour that others have been punished for. Ie, the application is not consistent.


and if you read a bit more carefully, you'd notice that i've categorically stated that it is NOT a race issue.......its not white vs non white...its australia vs non australians issue to me.

as per the bat and P*ssy comment.......lets just say there is something called honour in life- IIRC, celts used to be big on that. I suppose you dont mind backstabbers then or betrayers.....

 

[hourn]

agree witty comments that get under the batsmen skins rather than abusive comments are what i prefer to use. And for the most part they are much more affective.

But the thing is some people aren't like that and have thin skins and get upset when people start saying stuff like that.

Your right, abuse probably shouldn't be a part of cricket, but it's always gonna be there and my opinion is that it doesn't bother me whether it's there or not.

WIth the racial thing that wasn't directed at you. I just read the first few pages and my understanding was a lot of people believe the Australians were being racist simply because they were sledging the Indians or the Pakistanis etc,.

 

[C_C]

agree witty comments that get under the batsmen skins rather than abusive comments are what i prefer to use. And for the most part they are much more affective.

But the thing is some people aren't like that and have thin skins and get upset when people start saying stuff like that.

Your right, abuse probably shouldn't be a part of cricket, but it's always gonna be there and my opinion is that it doesn't bother me whether it's there or not.

WIth the racial thing that wasn't directed at you. I just read the first few pages and my understanding was a lot of people believe the Australians were being racist simply because they were sledging the Indians or the Pakistanis etc,.

extremely well said.
The only thing i would disagree on is the apathy towards the crudeness, as apathy only condones that sort of behaviour.
I am not debating why people fly off their handle, i am debating the uneven application of the law in this case and whether it is a good thing or a bad thing to fly off the hand;e.
But otherwise, i agree with your comments.

 

[Scallywag]

Ganguly and Sehwag bring a real sense of crudeness to the game.

Even though Pathan has a reputation for being the crudest of them all.

 

[C_C]

Ganguly and Sehwag bring a real sense of crudeness to the game.

Even though Pathan has a reputation for being the crudest of them all.

scully you havnt answered my questions.
And ganguly/sehwag arnt uncouth like McGrath or Lehmann....
As per Pathan- lets see..one guy mockingly claps as opposed to guys snarling in the face of the batsmen/implying someone is homosexual and threatening to rip their throat off......
oh yea....sooooooooo the same ballpark!


If you cant debate the points i am making mate, i suggest you stfu.
Thanks.

 

[benchmark00]

Can someone please close this thread??? its got to the point of being ridiculous (although it clearly was at the start)... C_C youve just gone to the point of bitching for the sake of your own pig headedness.... please close the thread! lol

 

[C_C]

C_C youve just gone to the point of bitching for the sake of your own pig headedness.... please close the thread! lol

can you stop being an imbecile and not make personal attacks ?
Instead concentrate on the points that are being put forward on the table.

Thanks.

 

[benchmark00]

haha you just called me an imbecile and you have called me many other things in other threads/posts..... your points are taken into consideration by others, how about you do the same?

 

[C_C]

your points are taken into consideration by other, how about you do the same?

if they were, there wouldnt be an argument and all would be merry.


PS: I dont make personal attacks- i respond to them. Call it personal defence if you will. I debate on the points put forth on the table instead of trying to psychonalyse the person behind the message. For that would be presumptous and stupid.

 

[parttimer]

If cc had been watching mcgrath recently (he's toned down alot these days), or knew anything of his personality off the field he would not be talking such rubbish.

Of course he is just using the sledging issue as his stalking horse, and in reality wants to put down Australias achievements to sledging, controlling the ICC etc. He obviously also harbors a secret hatred of australians with his comments about aborigines etc. My advise to you is to accept that Australia are where they are because they are the best cricket team in the world (looking forward to the Ashes though).

Wild conspiracy theories may allow you to stay in denial, but cc accept it and move on.

 

[C_C]

If cc had been watching mcgrath recently (he's toned down alot these days), or knew anything of his personality off the field he would not be talking such rubbish.

Off field everyone is the next Christ.....whopee ding.

Of course he is just using the sledging issue as his stalking horse, and in reality wants to put down Australias achievements to sledging, controlling the ICC etc. He obviously also harbors a secret hatred of australians with his comments about aborigines etc. My advise to you is to accept that Australia are where they are because they are the best cricket team in the world (looking forward to the Ashes though).

Wild conspiracy theories may allow you to stay in denial, but cc accept it and move on.

you obviously havnt read my comments or have tinted vision.
For i didnt say ANYTHING about OZ accomplishments.......i am talking solely about their behaviour and the inconsistencies in implimenting the discipline rules.
As per my comments about the aboriginies....... giving you an example <to illustrate my point> from a topic you'll should now very well. It would've been ******** to talk about the mistreatment of the sibirs or Dalits as half of you wouldnt have any clue as to what i am talking about.

Liek i said, dont try to psychoanalyse me- you are not even remotely equipped to do that.

The only ones in denial here are the ones who are unwilling to debate the propensity of the incidences and uneven treatment of the ICC with regards to the OZ team.

 

[Scallywag]

scully you havnt answered my questions.
And ganguly/sehwag arnt uncouth like McGrath or Lehmann....
As per Pathan- lets see..one guy mockingly claps as opposed to guys snarling in the face of the batsmen/implying someone is homosexual and threatening to rip their throat off......
oh yea....sooooooooo the same ballpark!


If you cant debate the points i am making mate, i suggest you stfu.
Thanks.

Thats the problem C_C, you say McGrath and Lehman are uncouth and Ganguly and Sehwar arnt.

I can debate the points you are making.
Here is a list of reasons why I can say Ganguly, Sehwag and Pathan are just as uncouth as any Australian.


Irfan Pathan Australia v India, 2nd Final
8th February 2004 at Sydney Breach of Code C1 - Players and/or Team Officials shall at all times conduct play within the spirit of the game as well as within the Laws of Cricket and the captains are responsible at all times for ensuring that this is adhered to. Official Reprimand.

Sourav Ganguly India v Pakistan , Only ODI
13th November 2004 at Kolkata Breach of Code C1 at Level 3 - Players and/or Team Officials shall at all times conduct play within the spirit of the game as well as within the Laws of Cricket and the captains are responsible at all times for ensuring that this is adhered to. Suspended for 2 Test matches

Irfan Pathan India v Pakistan , Only ODI
13th November 2004 at Kolkata Breach of Code 2.5 - Inappropriate and deliberate physical contact between Players in the course of play. Fined 50% of match fee

Sourav Ganguly India v South Africa, 2nd Test
28 Nov - 2 Dec 2004 at Kolkata Breach of Code 1.3 - Showing dissent at an umpire’s decision by action or verbal abuse. Fined 30% of match fee.

Virender Sehwag India v Australia, 1st Test
6-10 Oct 2004 Breach of Code 2.2 Showing serious dissent at an Umpire’s decision by action or verbal abuse. Fined 65% of match fee

Harbhajan Singh
India v South Africa, TVS Cup (ODI)
13th April 2003 at Dhaka
Breach of Code 2.9 – the player directed foul and abusive language at the umpire. Fined 50% of match fee.

Sourav Ganguly Sri Lanka v New Zealand
5th ODI 26 July 2001 at Premadasa Breach of Code 3. Upon being given out LBW by Umpire Gamina Silva he raised his bat and left the pitch shaking his head. Found guilty of dissent. Suspended for one ODI match with immediate effect and will not be eligible for selection to play in 6th ODI against Sri Lanka (28th July) C Smith

Sourav Ganguly Sri Lanka v India ODI
1 August 2001 at SSC Colombo Breach of Code 2 after gesturing and speaking to Sri Lankan batsman after he had dismissed him. Found guilty, issued with a severe reprimand and fined 75% of his match fee,

Virender Sehwag South Africa v India, 2nd Test
16 - 20 November 2001 at Port Elizabeth Breach of Codes 3 & 4, showing excessive actions and reactioins to the 'not out' decision, and attempting to intimidate the Umpire by charging him. Found guilty and fined 75% of match fee, plus a ban of one Test match effective immediately. Unavailable for Third Test at Centurion Park commencing 23/11/01. M Denness

Virender Sehwag,
Harbhajan Singh,
South Africa v India, 2nd Test
16 - 20 November 2001 at Port Elizabeth Breach of Codes 3 & 4, showing dissent at the Umpire's decision and attempting to intimidate the Umpire. Each found guilty, fined 75% of match fee and suspended suspension of one Test match effective immediately until 31st January 2002. M Denness

Saurav Ganguly India v Zimbabwe 4th ODI, Kanpur
11th December 2000 Breach of Code 2,3 & 4 – showing dissent several times towards umpire Sathe. Suspended for (1) One Day International match and suspended suspension of (2) One Day International matches for period 11 Dec 00 – 1 June 01. If found in breach of Code at any time during this period, suspension will automatically apply.

Sourav Ganguly South Africa v India, 2nd Test
16 - 20 November 2001 at Port Elizabeth Breach of Codes 1 & 2, failing to uphold his responsibility as Captain for the spirit of the game, including failure to control the conduct of his players, thereby bringing the game into disrepute. Found guilty and received a one Test match and two ODI matches suspended suspension, effective immediately until 31st January 2002, as long as he remains Captain of India

 

[Son Of Coco]

No.
Thats not what i said.
I said that # of reportings are irrelevant- OZ gets prefferential treatment compared to the REST ( and i said REST-dont make it an IND vs OZ issue when i am clearly stating it as an OZ vs Rest of the WORLD issue)
I said that number of INSTANCES are far stacked in the case of the aussie players.

I don't see how what I wrote above made it into an India vs Aus thing!?

I think you are being pretty subjective in what you consider an 'instance' and what you don't. It seems most things brought up that don't concern Australian players are considered pretty tame......so I hardly think you're looking at it from an unbiased point of view. Scallywag's list should help you out a bit I guess.

 

[marc71178]

Only NZ has escaped any punishment and this is no surprise as Fleming runs a tight ship.

And Bangladesh!

 

[marc71178]

match fixing? a tad slanderous perhaps?

As well 100% untrue.

 

[benchmark00]

How could Shane Warne and Mark Waugh be accused of match fixing, all they did was supply a bookmaker with pitch conditions didnt they??.. foolish to think thats match fixing.. and i dont know whats so bad with it