The Australian team - A disgrace to the game

[The Argonaut]

Unfortunately the record does not support that the Aussies are worse than anyone else. The Aussies have been much improved over the last couple of years. I have trawled through the ICC records and have found the following.

Australia - 2 players fined for dissent and obscene language

India - 5 players fined for a variety of incidents, 1 reprimanded and the team fined for slow over rate

Pakistan - 4 players fined, 2 suspended for various incidents

Sri Lanka - 3 players fined for obscene language

West Indies - 2 players fined for dissent and physical contact

South Africa - 4 players fined, 1 reprimanded and 1 suspended

Zimbabwe - 1 player suspended

England - 1 player fined for a sendoff

Only NZ has escaped any punishment and this is no surprise as Fleming runs a tight ship.

From the figures you could say that India, pakistan and South Africa are about level.

There are complaints about the Aussies sledging etc but the worse incidents IMO are ones of physical contact between players. There have been a couple of these over the last 2 years.

IMO Australia is a pretty easy target for these allegations. Ganguly is not a disciplined skipper and the Indian's record speaks for itself.

 

[benchmark00]

If anything Slow Love, the onus to proove anything is on you and C_C etc... starting the thread and making the original claim.... where are your statistics? dont they see a bit blind sighted by thinking that these indian (and other payers) are angels? scallywag has made the best point out of this whole thing, and for that i respect, all you and c_c are doing are just having a backhanded comment for everything he says.... without acknowledging the merit that it has, which is a great deal... you only find the stats in favour of the indians and others, so arent you basically bagging yourself out for making claims of bias??

 

[Scallywag]

Incorrect. All you've shown is that IND players have been reported moer frequently than OZ in the recent times.
But the frequency of incidents are still in favour of OZ and it shows that there is one rule for OZ and another for rest.
apparently sehwag glaring at the umpire for being robbed is worhty of a fine. But Warne's uncouth behaviour of geticulating and saying 'LOOK AT THE SCREEN' is not guilty of any violations.
THESE are double standards. So number of times reported is irrelevant. Incidents are what matters and OZ have about 3 incidents to 1 for every other nation.



Ganguly is just about as poor an ambasador as mr bar room brawler Ponting...
Warne and Mark Waugh are cheats - except mark waugh got away with it. Brad Williams, McGrath,Warne, Lehmann etc. are far more foul mouthed than the ones you listed but unlike the aussies, they dont get away with their transgressions.

I agree thats what you think.

But in reality thats not the case and India are the worst behaved team and Ganguly is a serial offender.

But you cant see your own bias.

 

[Slow Love™]

Slow Love

I have proven this statement to be false with the frequency of India's appalling behavoir. So unless you have some facts you want to show I think you have nothing to add to this discussion.

I don't know why you're quoting C_C's post and then addressing it to me, but whatever.

In reality, I'm the ONLY person so far to produce some results by comparison, being the report from March this year, which cites South Africa and Pakistan as the worst offenders, with Australia and India equal second, over the last two years. You've repetitively produced charges against India, but NO comparitive stats for other teams, outside of ones you completely made up (and I still think it's hilarious that you did that, because I always suspected you had bugger-all).

Every time I've asked you to produce statistics to give us any sense of comparison between the teams, you've fudged and stalled, and failed to do so. It's like saying "criminal A is MUCH worse than criminal B and here are some of his offences, but I'm not actually going to list what criminal B did". It's a non-argument.

 

[Slow Love™]

If anything Slow Love, the onus to proove anything is on you and C_C etc... starting the thread and making the original claim.... where are your statistics? dont they see a bit blind sighted by thinking that these indian (and other payers) are angels? scallywag has made the best point out of this whole thing, and for that i respect, all you and c_c are doing are just having a backhanded comment for everything he says.... without acknowledging the merit that it has, which is a great deal... you only find the stats in favour of the indians and others, so arent you basically bagging yourself out for making claims of bias??

First of all, I didn't make the thread, nor the original claim. Second, if you look at my original post in the thread, here back in July, I had already said that I didn't believe that the Aussies were the worst offenders - in fact, it ties up pretty well with what I've been saying all along. I don't think that ANYBODY has said that the Indians were angels. Half of this thread is idiotic straw men being built by both sides.

What I wanted was for Scallywag to substantiate his claims - that the FACT was that India were worse than Australia, and then, that India were worse than everybody else. He's completely failed to do so, and resorted to just making up figures off the top of his head.

The only reason you can't see this is because of your own parochial leanings. My curiosity about what the actual truth of the situation was and demanding of Scallywag to back up his assertions is hardly evidence of bias on my part. I frequently said that I didn't actually KNOW who was worse, throughout the thread - I'd have thought if you said you DID know, you'd have some "actual" facts to support your argument.

 

[Scallywag]

I don't know why you're quoting C_C's post and then addressing it to me, but whatever.

In reality, I'm the ONLY person so far to produce some results by comparison, being the report from March this year, which cites South Africa and Pakistan as the worst offenders, with Australia and India equal second, over the last two years. You've repetitively produced charges against India, but NO comparitive stats for other teams, outside of ones you completely made up (and I still think it's hilarious that you did that, because I always suspected you had bugger-all).

Every time I've asked you to produce statistics to give us any sense of comparison between the teams, you've fudged and stalled, and failed to do so. It's like saying "criminal A is MUCH worse than criminal B and here are some of his offences, but I'm not actually going to list what criminal B did". It's a non-argument.

Maybe you dont know what the title of the thread is and maybe you havent read all the posts, I dont have any idea why you have not read all the comments about Williams,McGrath and the other Australians to know what I was comparing them too but if you go back to post one and read the whole lot instead of expecting me to update you in every post.


Just to spell it out to you:

C_C claims that the Australians are the worst behaved cricket team. (without any facts and you have not asked for any)

I claimed that, that is a false statement because I have seen the list of offenders and the fact is India is the worst behaved.

You then chimed in wanting stats to prove this fact.

I have given you the facts as to why India is the worst behaved team.

I have never said there are stats, just the FACT that India is the worst behaved team.

 

[benchmark00]

It's like saying "criminal A is MUCH worse than criminal B and here are some of his offences, but I'm not actually going to list what criminal B did". It's a non-argument.

no its not, thats an obsolutely stupid comment, and have lost all of the (little) respect you had from me

 

[Slow Love™]

no its not, thats an obsolutely stupid comment, and have lost all of the (little) respect you had from me

Oh for crying out loud, it's exactly what he did. One has to wonder why I'm wasting my time. It's not too much to ask, when somebody starts citing "FACTS" in capital letters, that you expect some standard of evidence. And don't assume that your respect has some kind of currency, mate, at least as far as I'm concerned.

If you guys think that just making crap up and pretending you actually know something for sure that you don't constitutes some kind of argument, I guess that's your prerogative, though. You make a good pair.

 

[Slow Love™]

You then chimed in wanting stats to prove this fact.

I have given you the facts as to why India is the worst behaved team.

I have never said there are stats, just the FACT that India is the worst behaved team.

No, you never did give me that fact. Comparitive stats or a list WOULD prove it, at least in the sense of actions taken. All you've ever actually given me is the word FACT, over and over again with nothing behind it, with the exception of something you confessed to making up. The list I've produced of the last two years says different - I'm prepared that it might not be the whole story, but it's still substantially more in the way of actual "FACT" than you've produced to support your argument.

 

[C_C]

C_C claims that the Australians are the worst behaved cricket team. (without any facts and you have not asked for any)

FACTS back me up- judgements of the ICC which are biassed for the aussies dont.
The number of on-field misbehaviours by OZ players far outnumbers any other teams- i can quote instances after instances.
Judgements dont because they are BIASSED towards the aussies.

I can back up my claim by pointing to numerous incidents where the OZ were guilty of the same crime, if not worse, but got off scot free.
So obviously # of indictions wont be equal.

Shane warne screams at the umpire and points towards the screen = goes scot free
A non aussie player over-appeals = fine

Brad Williams acting like a moron = scot free
Akhtar doing the same = fine

The aussies are the most misbehaved team on the field- instances back it up.
But the convictions dont because like i said, there is one rule for the aussies and another for the rest.

Neither Scully nor benchmark have debated me in terms of the instances AUS were loutish on the field...instead they quote convictions...which further proves my point that AUS get prefferential treatment from disciplinary committee.

 

[Dasa]

What a fine thread!

 

[Scallywag]

FACTS back me up- judgements of the ICC which are biassed for the aussies dont.
The number of on-field misbehaviours by OZ players far outnumbers any other teams- i can quote instances after instances.
Judgements dont because they are BIASSED towards the aussies.

.

Show me some stats that show Australia get biased treatment.

You cant just list all the Australian let offs without listing all the people who got off, like Sarwan for instance, and Hussian and Latif.

You and Slow Love just cant face the fact that India is the worst behaved team. We just dont know how much cheating Tendulkar and Dravid got away with do we.

 

[C_C]

Show me some stats that show Australia get biased treatment.

show the stats that showed that Aboriginies were discriminated against by the aussie folks.

You cant just list all the Australian let offs without listing all the people who got off, like Sarwan for instance, and Hussian and Latif.

Sarwan didnt start it. McGrath did.

You and Slow Love just cant face the fact that India is the worst behaved team. We just dont know how much cheating Tendulkar and Dravid got away with do we.

less cheating than Mark Waugh and Shane Warne....especially Warne the drug cheat and match fixer.

 

[age_master]

match fixing? a tad slanderous perhaps?

 

[Son Of Coco]

Incorrect. All you've shown is that IND players have been reported moer frequently than OZ in the recent times.
But the frequency of incidents are still in favour of OZ and it shows that there is one rule for OZ and another for rest.
apparently sehwag glaring at the umpire for being robbed is worhty of a fine. But Warne's uncouth behaviour of geticulating and saying 'LOOK AT THE SCREEN' is not guilty of any violations.
THESE are double standards. So number of times reported is irrelevant. Incidents are what matters and OZ have about 3 incidents to 1 for every other nation.



Ganguly is just about as poor an ambasador as mr bar room brawler Ponting...
Warne and Mark Waugh are cheats - except mark waugh got away with it. Brad Williams, McGrath,Warne, Lehmann etc. are far more foul mouthed than the ones you listed but unlike the aussies, they dont get away with their transgressions.

So when we are reported more frequently this points to us being the worst (which should be kind of obvious i guess) but then when someone else is reported more frequently this is evidence of double standards? Sorry, but you're not going to be allowed to have all that cake AND eat it too.

You're just picking out one-off incidents for the most part and stating them as if it's a way of life for the player. The same could be done in reverse (see Scallywag's replies), but the whole thing is pretty much a giant waste of time.

 

[Dasa]

match fixing? a tad slanderous perhaps?

Much like the entire thread.

 

[benchmark00]

show the stats that showed that Aboriginies were discriminated against by the aussie folks.

Dont talk about things that have no relevance and on a topic which you have no idea about

 

[C_C]

So when we are reported more frequently this points to us being the worst (which should be kind of obvious i guess) but then when someone else is reported more frequently this is evidence of double standards? Sorry, but you're not going to be allowed to have all that cake AND eat it too.

You're just picking out one-off incidents for the most part and stating them as if it's a way of life for the player. The same could be done in reverse (see Scallywag's replies), but the whole thing is pretty much a giant waste of time.

No.
Thats not what i said.
I said that # of reportings are irrelevant- OZ gets prefferential treatment compared to the REST ( and i said REST-dont make it an IND vs OZ issue when i am clearly stating it as an OZ vs Rest of the WORLD issue)
I said that number of INSTANCES are far stacked in the case of the aussie players.

Dont talk about things that have no relevance and on a topic which you have no idea about

listen-kiddo- dont assume on what i have an idea on and what i dont have an idea on. I'll leave it to that.
It would be a SMART thing <something that obviously cannot be associated with you> to engage me in a conversation before you dispute my knowledge on the field.

besides, the entire point of that quote flew over your head.

 

[age_master]

No.
Thats not what i said.
I said that # of reportings are irrelevant- OZ gets prefferential treatment compared to the REST ( and i said REST-dont make it an IND vs OZ issue when i am clearly stating it as an OZ vs Rest of the WORLD issue)
I said that number of INSTANCES are far stacked in the case of the aussie players.

ohh ofcourse the number of reportings is because all the match referees are with australia and against the rest of the world, wonder why i didn't see that before

 

[benchmark00]

listen-kiddo- dont assume on what i have an idea on and what i dont have an idea on. I'll leave it to that.
It would be a SMART thing <something that obviously cannot be associated with you> to engage me in a conversation before you dispute my knowledge on the field.

somehow i think i know a bit more about Australian culture then you KIDDO

it was totally irrelevant