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The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread

Coronis

International Coach
Where does he rank in your list of best batsman?
14th at last check. My top 13 (chronologically) Hobbs, Sutcliffe, Hammond, Bradman, Hutton, Sobers, Chappell, Gavaskar, Tendulkar, Lara, Kallis, Sangakkara, Smith all make those first two teams.
 

Daemon

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bazball is about picking mediocre players and making them better by just bazballing

can't be picking Richards and Gilchrist etc. has to be people like Mal Loye.
 

Prince EWS

Global Moderator
bazball is about picking mediocre players and making them better by just bazballing

can't be picking Richards and Gilchrist etc. has to be people like Mal Loye.
Yeah or pick Devon Smith and tell him just smash it, then watch him somehow average 40.
 

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
England post WWII - 1960 XI:

1. Len Hutton (c)
2. Cyril Washbrook
3. Wally Hammond
4. Denis Compton
5. Peter May
6. Ken Barrington
7. Godfrey Evans (wk)
8. Jim Laker
9. Fred Trueman
10. Alec Bedser
11. Brian Statham

2nd XI:

1. Bill Edrich
2. Raman Subha Row
3. Ted Dexter
4. Tom Graveney
5. Colin Cowdrey (c)
6. Joe Hardstaff Jr
7. Paul Gibb (wk)
8. Trevor Bailey
9. Frank Tyson
10. Tony Lock
11. Johnny Wardle

England Post 1960:

1. Geoff Boycott
2. Alaistar Cook (c)
3. David Gower
4. Joe Root
5. Kevin Pietersen
6. Ben Stokes
7. Ian Botham
8. Alan Knott (wk)
9. Derek Underwood
10. Bob Willis
11. James Anderson


2nd XI:

1. Graham Gooch
2. Dennis Amiss
3. Alec Stewart (wk)
4. Ian Bell
5. Graham Thorpe
6. Robin Smith
7. Tony Greig (c)
8. Stuart Broad
9. Graeme Swann
10. John Snow
11. Darren Gough

England literally fielded a bunch of much stronger players between the 13 years of time of Test cricket restarting and 1960 than they have done in the 64 years since..... Especially the first team of Pre 60s has an exceptionally strong batting and bowling (an argument can be made that they have 5 batsmen and all 4 bowlers better than anything fielded since).
 

Coronis

International Coach
England post WWII - 1960 XI:

1. Len Hutton (c)
2. Cyril Washbrook
3. Wally Hammond
4. Denis Compton
5. Peter May
6. Ken Barrington
7. Godfrey Evans (wk)
8. Jim Laker
9. Fred Trueman
10. Alec Bedser
11. Brian Statham

2nd XI:

1. Bill Edrich
2. Raman Subha Row
3. Ted Dexter
4. Tom Graveney
5. Colin Cowdrey (c)
6. Joe Hardstaff Jr
7. Paul Gibb (wk)
8. Trevor Bailey
9. Frank Tyson
10. Tony Lock
11. Johnny Wardle

England Post 1960:

1. Geoff Boycott
2. Alaistar Cook (c)
3. David Gower
4. Joe Root
5. Kevin Pietersen
6. Ben Stokes
7. Ian Botham
8. Alan Knott (wk)
9. Derek Underwood
10. Bob Willis
11. James Anderson


2nd XI:

1. Graham Gooch
2. Dennis Amiss
3. Alec Stewart (wk)
4. Ian Bell
5. Graham Thorpe
6. Robin Smith
7. Tony Greig (c)
8. Stuart Broad
9. Graeme Swann
10. John Snow
11. Darren Gough

England literally fielded a bunch of much stronger players between the 13 years of time of Test cricket restarting and 1960 than they have done in the 64 years since..... Especially the first team of Pre 60s has an exceptionally strong batting and bowling (an argument can be made that they have 5 batsmen and all 4 bowlers better than anything fielded since).
Barrington belongs in the post 1960 XI tbh, unless you’re going by debut year.
 

kyear2

International Coach
Not going to pretend this is consensus, but a lot closer to it, I would imagine

Top 14 Bats
Bradman
Tendulkar
Sobers
Hobbs

Richards
Smith
Lara
Hutton

Hammond
Gavaskar
Ponting
Chappell

Kallis
Sangakkara


While I'm at it.

Top 14 bowlers
Marshall
McGrath
Hadlee

Warne
Steyn
Muralitharan
Ambrose

Imran
Donald
Lillee
Trueman
Wasim

Garner
Lindwall


And why not

Top 14 Slip fielders
Hammond
Simpson
Chappell
Waugh
Ponting
Sobers
Richardson
Hooper
Flemming
Kallis

Taylor
Jayawardene
Dravid
Hayden

Should also be listed...

Top 8 all rounders
Sobers
Imran
Kallis
Miller
Botham
Hadlee
Pollock
Kapil

Obviously the catching list is subjective, but tried to get the best of what I've seen and from what I've read.

Edit: replaced Gavaskar with Flemming and added all rounders
 
Last edited:

Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
England post WWII - 1960 XI:

1. Len Hutton (c)
2. Cyril Washbrook
3. Wally Hammond
4. Denis Compton
5. Peter May
6. Ken Barrington
7. Godfrey Evans (wk)
8. Jim Laker
9. Fred Trueman
10. Alec Bedser
11. Brian Statham

2nd XI:

1. Bill Edrich
2. Raman Subha Row
3. Ted Dexter
4. Tom Graveney
5. Colin Cowdrey (c)
6. Joe Hardstaff Jr
7. Paul Gibb (wk)
8. Trevor Bailey
9. Frank Tyson
10. Tony Lock
11. Johnny Wardle

England Post 1960:

1. Geoff Boycott
2. Alaistar Cook (c)
3. David Gower
4. Joe Root
5. Kevin Pietersen
6. Ben Stokes
7. Ian Botham
8. Alan Knott (wk)
9. Derek Underwood
10. Bob Willis
11. James Anderson


2nd XI:

1. Graham Gooch
2. Dennis Amiss
3. Alec Stewart (wk)
4. Ian Bell
5. Graham Thorpe
6. Robin Smith
7. Tony Greig (c)
8. Stuart Broad
9. Graeme Swann
10. John Snow
11. Darren Gough
It is wrong to put Hammond in a post ww 2 side.
 

Coronis

International Coach
Not going to pretend this is consensus, but a lot closer to it, I would imagine

Top 14 Bats
Bradman
Tendulkar
Sobers
Hobbs

Richards
Smith
Lara
Hutton

Hammond
Gavaskar
Ponting
Chappell

Kallis
Sangakkara


While I'm at it.

Top 14 bowlers
Marshall
McGrath
Hadlee

Warne
Steyn
Muralitharan
Ambrose

Imran
Donald
Lillee
Trueman
Wasim

Garner
Lindwall


And why not

Top 14 Slip fielders
Hammond
Simpson
Chappell
Waugh
Ponting
Sobers
Richardson
Hooper
Kallis

Taylor
Gavaskar
Jayawardene
Dravid
Hayden

Obviously the last is ridiculously subjective, but tried to get the best of what I've seen and from what I've read.
Can understand why Barnes isn’t there, but surely O’Reilly should be?
 

Fuller Pilch

Hall of Fame Member
Not going to pretend this is consensus, but a lot closer to it, I would imagine

Top 14 Bats
Bradman
Tendulkar
Sobers
Hobbs

Richards
Smith
Lara
Hutton

Hammond
Gavaskar
Ponting
Chappell

Kallis
Sangakkara


While I'm at it.

Top 14 bowlers
Marshall
McGrath
Hadlee

Warne
Steyn
Muralitharan
Ambrose

Imran
Donald
Lillee
Trueman
Wasim

Garner
Lindwall


And why not

Top 14 Slip fielders
Hammond
Simpson
Chappell
Waugh
Ponting
Sobers
Richardson
Hooper
Kallis

Taylor
Gavaskar
Jayawardene
Dravid
Hayden

Obviously the last is ridiculously subjective, but tried to get the best of what I've seen and from what I've read.
Fleming was better than many of those slip fielders.
 

capt_Luffy

Cricketer Of The Year
Barrington belongs in the post 1960 XI tbh, unless you’re going by debut year.
I'm pretty much using anyone to have played in the post War period till the 60s. Just wanted to point out how much of a quality difference was in the players who played during that 12-13 years and the rest of the post War period.
 

kyear2

International Coach
Fleming was better than many of those slip fielders.
From the ones I saw, I can't put anyone above Waugh, Richardson, Hooper, Ponting or Kallis. Flemming was definitely comparable though.

Hammond, Simpson and Sobers were also supposed to be in that tier and peerless, and I've seen enough of Sobers to have confirmed that for myself. Don't think the other two even require that discussion.

That leaves Chappell and from the begining I admitted that the list would be subjective and would have no issue swapping Flemming for him.

With regards to the second list, that was for spin and Gavaskar was a bit of a projection,. So he's also very replaceable.
 

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