Where does he rank in your list of best batsman?
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The ATG Teams General arguing/discussing thread
- Thread starter Red
- Start date
Coronis
International Coach
14th at last check. My top 13 (chronologically) Hobbs, Sutcliffe, Hammond, Bradman, Hutton, Sobers, Chappell, Gavaskar, Tendulkar, Lara, Kallis, Sangakkara, Smith all make those first two teams.
ataraxia
International Coach
Lara > Tendulkar imo
Coronis
International Coach
In terms of test debut, not age.
ataraxia
International Coach
That's nonsensical. Lara > Tendulkar, obviously; Tendulkar's last 7 years matter.
smash84
The Tiger King
Prince EWS
Global Moderator
Yeah or pick Devon Smith and tell him just smash it, then watch him somehow average 40.
Coronis
International Coach
I beg to differ.
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
Daemon
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Didn't he average like 60+ in 2021 leading up to the captaincy change anywaysI beg to differ.
Batting records | Test matches | Cricinfo Statsguru | ESPNcricinfo.com
stats.espncricinfo.com
Root has been scoring fast and making lots of runs but he didn't get that much better compared to the rest of the players under Bazball imo
capt_Luffy
International Captain
England post WWII - 1960 XI:
1. Len Hutton (c)
2. Cyril Washbrook
3. Wally Hammond
4. Denis Compton
5. Peter May
6. Ken Barrington
7. Godfrey Evans (wk)
8. Jim Laker
9. Fred Trueman
10. Alec Bedser
11. Brian Statham
2nd XI:
1. Bill Edrich
2. Raman Subha Row
3. Ted Dexter
4. Tom Graveney
5. Colin Cowdrey (c)
6. Joe Hardstaff Jr
7. Paul Gibb (wk)
8. Trevor Bailey
9. Frank Tyson
10. Tony Lock
11. Johnny Wardle
England Post 1960:
1. Geoff Boycott
2. Alaistar Cook (c)
3. David Gower
4. Joe Root
5. Kevin Pietersen
6. Ben Stokes
7. Ian Botham
8. Alan Knott (wk)
9. Derek Underwood
10. Bob Willis
11. James Anderson
2nd XI:
1. Graham Gooch
2. Dennis Amiss
3. Alec Stewart (wk)
4. Ian Bell
5. Graham Thorpe
6. Robin Smith
7. Tony Greig (c)
8. Stuart Broad
9. Graeme Swann
10. John Snow
11. Darren Gough
England literally fielded a bunch of much stronger players between the 13 years of time of Test cricket restarting and 1960 than they have done in the 64 years since..... Especially the first team of Pre 60s has an exceptionally strong batting and bowling (an argument can be made that they have 5 batsmen and all 4 bowlers better than anything fielded since).
1. Len Hutton (c)
2. Cyril Washbrook
3. Wally Hammond
4. Denis Compton
5. Peter May
6. Ken Barrington
7. Godfrey Evans (wk)
8. Jim Laker
9. Fred Trueman
10. Alec Bedser
11. Brian Statham
2nd XI:
1. Bill Edrich
2. Raman Subha Row
3. Ted Dexter
4. Tom Graveney
5. Colin Cowdrey (c)
6. Joe Hardstaff Jr
7. Paul Gibb (wk)
8. Trevor Bailey
9. Frank Tyson
10. Tony Lock
11. Johnny Wardle
England Post 1960:
1. Geoff Boycott
2. Alaistar Cook (c)
3. David Gower
4. Joe Root
5. Kevin Pietersen
6. Ben Stokes
7. Ian Botham
8. Alan Knott (wk)
9. Derek Underwood
10. Bob Willis
11. James Anderson
2nd XI:
1. Graham Gooch
2. Dennis Amiss
3. Alec Stewart (wk)
4. Ian Bell
5. Graham Thorpe
6. Robin Smith
7. Tony Greig (c)
8. Stuart Broad
9. Graeme Swann
10. John Snow
11. Darren Gough
England literally fielded a bunch of much stronger players between the 13 years of time of Test cricket restarting and 1960 than they have done in the 64 years since..... Especially the first team of Pre 60s has an exceptionally strong batting and bowling (an argument can be made that they have 5 batsmen and all 4 bowlers better than anything fielded since).
capt_Luffy
International Captain
I mean, yeah ofcourse it's horrible over Richards; not sure if the opinion is 'horrible' over others though...
Coronis
International Coach
Barrington belongs in the post 1960 XI tbh, unless you’re going by debut year.
kyear2
International Coach
Not going to pretend this is consensus, but a lot closer to it, I would imagine
Top 14 Bats
Bradman
Tendulkar
Sobers
Hobbs
Richards
Smith
Lara
Hutton
Hammond
Gavaskar
Ponting
Chappell
Kallis
Sangakkara
While I'm at it.
Top 14 bowlers
Marshall
McGrath
Hadlee
Warne
Steyn
Muralitharan
Ambrose
Imran
Donald
Lillee
Trueman
Wasim
Garner
Lindwall
And why not
Top 14 Slip fielders
Hammond
Simpson
Chappell
Waugh
Ponting
Sobers
Richardson
Hooper
Flemming
Kallis
Taylor
Jayawardene
Dravid
Hayden
Should also be listed...
Top 8 all rounders
Sobers
Imran
Kallis
Miller
Botham
Hadlee
Pollock
Kapil
Obviously the catching list is subjective, but tried to get the best of what I've seen and from what I've read.
Edit: replaced Gavaskar with Flemming and added all rounders
Top 14 Bats
Bradman
Tendulkar
Sobers
Hobbs
Richards
Smith
Lara
Hutton
Hammond
Gavaskar
Ponting
Chappell
Kallis
Sangakkara
While I'm at it.
Top 14 bowlers
Marshall
McGrath
Hadlee
Warne
Steyn
Muralitharan
Ambrose
Imran
Donald
Lillee
Trueman
Wasim
Garner
Lindwall
And why not
Top 14 Slip fielders
Hammond
Simpson
Chappell
Waugh
Ponting
Sobers
Richardson
Hooper
Flemming
Kallis
Taylor
Jayawardene
Dravid
Hayden
Should also be listed...
Top 8 all rounders
Sobers
Imran
Kallis
Miller
Botham
Hadlee
Pollock
Kapil
Obviously the catching list is subjective, but tried to get the best of what I've seen and from what I've read.
Edit: replaced Gavaskar with Flemming and added all rounders
Last edited:
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
It is wrong to put Hammond in a post ww 2 side.
Coronis
International Coach
Can understand why Barnes isn’t there, but surely O’Reilly should be?
Fuller Pilch
Hall of Fame Member
Fleming was better than many of those slip fielders.
capt_Luffy
International Captain
I'm pretty much using anyone to have played in the post War period till the 60s. Just wanted to point out how much of a quality difference was in the players who played during that 12-13 years and the rest of the post War period.
kyear2
International Coach
From the ones I saw, I can't put anyone above Waugh, Richardson, Hooper, Ponting or Kallis. Flemming was definitely comparable though.
Hammond, Simpson and Sobers were also supposed to be in that tier and peerless, and I've seen enough of Sobers to have confirmed that for myself. Don't think the other two even require that discussion.
That leaves Chappell and from the begining I admitted that the list would be subjective and would have no issue swapping Flemming for him.
With regards to the second list, that was for spin and Gavaskar was a bit of a projection,. So he's also very replaceable.