Should Langer get D R O P P E D as Australian coach?

[SteveNZ]

Apparently it’s not the intensity - more the mood swings. I can imagine it’d be a bit like treading on eggshells when around him. I actually had a boss exactly like that and it was awful.

OK, I guess intensity is slightly different to mood swings - although they're pretty close siblings. In fact, I'd argue mood swings are much worse than intensity. If you have a constantly intense boss, you know what to expect. Someone like Andy Flower was constantly intense. If Langer is hugging everyone one minute then flipping off the handle because he wasn't savvy enough to negotiate a better price for the doco (bearing in mind, that at the time he signed he would have been happy but only suffered the anger when he saw a lack of fairness) or whatever other bullshit, then that's frightening as a player.

A lot of the comment around the resignation should be seen for exactly what it's worth - biased opining from all angles. Matt Hayden says there was no commendation or support for Langer - which is not only factually untrue because Cummins said he was doing a fantastic job a couple of days ago, but it's also silly. Why should an Australian captain publicly back his coach for a longer tenure if that is not what he believes is best? If he does that, he looks stupid. If Australia was a mess in 2018, and it was, it doesn't mean Langer is the best man for the job in 2022 and beyond just because he navigated that path. We hear you couldn't meet a better bloke than Langer (pretty sure I'd manage if it was given the challenge), he's a family man, a meditator (mad to think how he'd be if he wasn't) etc etc.

 

[Line and Length]

As this sorry chapter of Australian cricket draws to a close, it is apparent that CA's handling of the whole issue was diabolical and that Langer's coaching style had outworn its welcome. However, I believe the senior players shouldn't escape scrutiny for their role in this saga. Even Cummins has been two faced in his comments to the media - praising Langer in one breath and wanting a replacement in the next.
@SteveNZ - I agree with your observation about the disparity between the comments on social media (eg Facebook) and those expressed here. To an extent, I believe it is an East v West thing with regards to many of the Australian CW members. I have seen put-downs expressed regarding the Marsh brothers (toned down since his World Cup performances), belittling of Adam Voges' successes and other similar sentiments.

 

[SteveNZ]

In my opinion (reasonably unbiased I guess, because I'm not invested in their results) I'd reckon the right thing has happened. CA are an absolute bunch of incompetent pricks and should be massively worried about the leaks and lack of accountability in their organisation, but that shouldn't detract from the fact someone like McDonald, Bayliss or maybe Gillespie are better placed to take this team forward. The T20 World Cup was the fly in the ointment. If Matthew Wade doesn't have a ramp shot, Australia bow out in the semis and no one really minds that Langer is sacked.

 

[Spark]

It seems like your Joe average general public cricketer watcher in Australia is actually really uneducated about the game. Not sure why that it is.

The one great downside of having your main yearly cricket event (Test matches) as not just free-to-air TV available for all to view with little competition, but as basically national events; every clown feels like they know enough to have an opinion

 

[SteveNZ]

Even Cummins has been two faced in his comments to the media - praising Langer in one breath and wanting a replacement in the next.

See, my opinion (maybe biased, I love Pat) is not this. Yeah he praised him for doing his job, he has to, right? How bad does it look if he doesn't in the wake of 4-0 and a T20 World Cup? And he didn't publicly ask for a replacement - might have privately - but just said he would allow CA to go through their processes. If he didn't want Langer, which he is absolutely entitled not to, it would have been even more disingenuous to say Langer should go on.

 

[SillyCowCorner1]

R E S I G N E D
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[RossTaylorsBox]

Would've been funnier if he

R E - S I G N E D
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[Spikey]

I think it's sad that Langer is abandoning his players before an important overseas tour because he's unhappy with his contract offer

 

[tony p]

So who are we going to blame now if Australia starts losing.

 

[Spikey]

Justin Langer for quitting on his players

 

[Burgey]

Even Cummins has been two faced in his comments to the media - praising Langer in one breath and wanting a replacement in the next

Cummins’ position was invidious. He backs langer and he gets rolled, what does that say to the next bloke?

 

[Spikey]

Missed Brettig's article today which provides fun bits:

The doco, the manager, the legends and Langer

Senior cricket figures have acknowledged that the day after the MCG Test would have been the best time to commence critical talks with Justin Langer about his future.

www.smh.com.au

some choice bits:

Langer and Dovey share a few attributes: intensity, demands for high standards and a dedication to physical fitness among them. But unlike Langer, Dovey did not enter cricket with any playing pedigree, having been recruited out of England rugby to replace Steve Bernard in 2011.

Once there, he has done a mountain of logistical work but also been a central figure in the homework-gate scandal of 2013, when Shane Watson, Usman Khawaja, Mitchell Johnson and James Pattinson were suspended for a Test match on seemingly minor grounds. The former coach Mickey Arthur has described how Dovey pushed hard for the bans: “That morning Gav came to my room and I sat there saying, ‘This is going to be massive. You’ve got to understand this; guys will lose their jobs around this,’ and I remember Gav saying ‘it’s the right thing to do. It’s what this team needs right now’.”

Five years later, Dovey had also been heavily involved in team discussions about how to handle the Newlands scandal, when Steve Smith and Cameron Bancroft ultimately chose to front the media but did not tell the full truth about the use of sandpaper on the ball. Had anyone other than Langer taken the job in 2018, it is likely that Dovey would have left, but as it was, he carried plenty of scar tissue into what was meant to be a fresh era for the team.

The recent public campaign for Langer’s retention, in which all the above names plus Steve Waugh have argued loudly in their former teammate’s favour, might have swayed a lot of the public. But to many current players and staff it is simply another avenue through which a past-player group have sought to influence the path of a contemporary team that got themselves into trouble in 2018 with a wrongheaded attempt to emulate the hard-nosed “mental disintegration” of Waugh’s era.
...
Over subsequent summers, the sheer volume but also proximity of these past greats has at times inhibited the team, whether through comments delivered brusquely from the commentary box or former players spending inordinate time on the field during warm-ups or in the dressing room after games.

Most frustrating of all have been instances where, after consulting the former players and commentators, Langer has ripped up pre-existing plans carefully drafted by staff and team captains and taken a fresh tack, often more than once over the course of a Test match.

That last one is interesting because to me one name comes to mind, and they may not necessarily be wrong, but I can see it causing issues

 

[honestbharani]

Missed Brettig's article today which provides fun bits:

The doco, the manager, the legends and Langer

Senior cricket figures have acknowledged that the day after the MCG Test would have been the best time to commence critical talks with Justin Langer about his future.

www.smh.com.au

some choice bits:






That last one is interesting because to me one name comes to mind, and they may not necessarily be wrong, but I can see it causing issues

I mean, the Fox guys and C7 guys have usually still been critical. So I would take some of this with a pinch of salt but yeah, he does seem to be a guy who hero worships the team he played in and basically anyone from there seemed to have a free pass to talk to the players and it could have been a case of too many cooks.

 

[Son Of Coco]

Jesus...listening to this daft English **** prattle on about the decision-making process behind their decision on Langer makes it clear as to how they got themselves in this position in the first place. Regardless of whether or not Langer was an effective coach, this is a pile of horseshit.

How did we end up with an Englishman in charge of Australian cricket, and how did cricket, more generally, wind up with a bunch of useless arse-huggers in charge of major cricket organisations who sound and act like politicians - i.e: they have no idea what they're doing but get paid handsomely for the privelege of being allowed to completely **** everything?

 

[Burgey]

Big surprise to hear Ian Chappell on the radio right now saying the coach isn’t important anyway

 

[tony p]

Has anyone ever seen Nick Hockley & Tom Harrison in the same room together.
They are both as useless as one another.

Hockley spoke brilliantly, err..., um..., JL...., err...., um... we thank him ....., um......, he's a legend......, um.

 

[anil1405]

 

[NotMcKenzie]

I'll say I've no problem were people to begin attacking CA over this as well, simply because those idiots need a spotlight shone on them.

 

[Spikey]

I'll say I've no problem were people to begin attacking CA over this as well, simply because those idiots need a spotlight shone on them.

They can do that, but I don't think they're on the right track. CA was in a tricky position and managed to get out of it pretty well. Like, 6 odd months ago they had a coach who the players clearly had major problems but had a very vocal support base. CA listened to the players, they got out the credit card and hired two respected assistants, got Langer to accept these changes to the coaching layout and then they won the two things they really trying to win. those are ticks. The only thing they failed at was convincing Langer to walk away quietly, but that wasn't in their control and Langer clearly didn't want to play ball. There's plenty of things to get mad at CA about, but I don't think this is really much of one.

They could saved themselves some trouble and straight up sacked him last season but that would have led to many of these same issues today...

 

[James]

Would be pretty poetic for him to take over as England Head Coach now and win back the Ashes for them.