***Official*** West Indies in New Zealand

[NZTailender]

Good win there to get the series. Hopefully some changes will be made to the lineup for the 3rd test...

 

[James]

By winning that Test New Zealand now have a new record, of the most test wins in a row than any other NZ team.

Beat Sri Lanka 2-0
Beat Zimbabwe 2-0
Beat West Indies 2-0 (1 to go)

Somehow I doubt we'll see any changes to the squad.

 

[sirjeremy11]

By winning that Test New Zealand now have a new record, of the most test wins in a row than any other NZ team.

Beat Sri Lanka 2-0
Beat Zimbabwe 2-0
Beat West Indies 2-0 (1 to go)

Somehow I doubt we'll see any changes to the squad.

*cough* Sri Lanka 1-0 *cough*

 

[James]

*cough* Sri Lanka 1-0 *cough*

 

[alternative]

Hamish gets some runs finally.. and he was not out tooo.. mind u its only 23 runs but it came out of 29 runs.. dont think he had too many problems scoring that.. if so correct me..

 

[sirjeremy11]

No. Some confident shots there.

He still ain't no opener though. I certainly wouldn't start giving him the nick name "Can" yet.

Personally, I would give him the nick name "Bomb".

 

[cbuts]

I think criticism of Vettori is misguided as no one can ever name a better option, yet a lot of people are willing to get stuck into him. Like a piece of meat I tell you. Meat!

Seriously, the best alternative I heard was "Pick another seamer". OK. But what happens on the subcontinent? And what happens when we play Australia? Leave Vettori out because even though the Aussies rate him, his average is still not good enough. Hell, I have an idea! Let's get rid of all test batsmen who average less than 39.5, and all test bowlers who average more than 29.5 - because they will all be horribly over rated. Oh, that's right. You can't.

Vettori is **** house but there is no one better in new zealand

 

[Loony BoB]

Actually, he's not as bad as you might think. He just was that bad. In the past 2-3 years he averages under 29.5, so if NZ had another bowler they could have brought in then he wouldn't have been playing for those years and his average would not have been pushed so far out of favour. If he was only playing tests while he was in form, like most spinners in the world, then he'd be doing just fine with an average somewhere between 28 and 31.

But anyway, enough of that Vettori talk, it's much more fun to slag off Bracewell.

You know how he thinks Vincent is an opener? Latest news is that he has told Sinclair he's a middle order batsman! Ha! Seriously, someone really needs to give him a right slapping. He should be taken out of the test selection panel. This is beyond a joke.

 

[Smudge]

Vettori is **** house but there is no one better in new zealand

Yes, he's shocking...

What exactly is he doing wrong in test and ODI cricket at the moment, cbuts (emphasis on the "buts")?

 

[ohtani's jacket]

Can't see how Vettori warrants criticism.

So, Fleming now has 27 wins, 24 losses & 23 draws. He's got a real chance to get up there with Border, Lloyd & Waugh in terms of 30+ wins.

 

[Zinzan]

Can't see how Vettori warrants criticism.

So, Fleming now has 27 wins, 24 losses & 23 draws. He's got a real chance to get up there with Border, Lloyd & Waugh in terms of 30+ wins.

Correct and its not too bad a record especially when you consider he took over during a real low-point in NZ cricket. He's also got a chance to catch Border, Taylor and possibly Mark Waugh at a stretch for the most non-keeping catches in a career. He's now taken 149 test catches in his 98th test.

 

[NZTailender]

The records 180 isn't it? I think Fleming can beat it

 

[Loony BoB]

http://uk.cricinfo.com/db/STATS/TESTS/FIELDING/CATCHES_CAREER.html

 

[NZTailender]

He certainly get 2nd spot on that list, if not first.

 

[howardj]

Is Michael Slater commentating in this series?

 

[marc71178]

Actually, he's not as bad as you might think. He just was that bad. In the past 2-3 years he averages under 29.5, so if NZ had another bowler they could have brought in then he wouldn't have been playing for those years and his average would not have been pushed so far out of favour. If he was only playing tests while he was in form, like most spinners in the world, then he'd be doing just fine with an average somewhere between 28 and 31.

Not sure where the 29.5 comes from, but if we go from 1/1/04 to now he has 65 @ 31.30 in 17 games.

That's fairly respectable until you look at the 4 Bangladesh/Zimbabwe games (31 wickets @ 12.10)

So it then becomes 34 wickets @ 48.82...

 

[Loony BoB]

Not sure where the 29.5 comes from, but if we go from 1/1/04 to now he has 65 @ 31.30 in 17 games.

That's fairly respectable until you look at the 4 Bangladesh/Zimbabwe games (31 wickets @ 12.10)

So it then becomes 34 wickets @ 48.82...

Yeah, because clearly nobody in the world counts the stats against poor nations. That's on par with someone saying "oh he does well against australia so he is clearly a good bowler".

 

[marc71178]

Those 4 games skew his average so much it makes the "overall" average look far far better than it should be.

And for the record, those figures include games vs Australia, when he hardly did well.

 

[Loony BoB]

So you're saying he's too good when playing against poor opposition? Surely Warne when playing the same opposition would also expect to have an opportunity to 'skew his average'? It's the same with every bowler around the world - you lower your bowling stats against Bangladesh and Zimbabwe.

EDIT: To clarify that "under 29.5" thing, I was going on the past two years to the day (20th March 2004 - today).

 

[Goughy]

Not sure where the 29.5 comes from, but if we go from 1/1/04 to now he has 65 @ 31.30 in 17 games.

That's fairly respectable until you look at the 4 Bangladesh/Zimbabwe games (31 wickets @ 12.10)

So it then becomes 34 wickets @ 48.82...

Marc, I've got your back on this one. It seems pretty obvious to me. If you play a disproportional number of games against the weakest teams then it will weight your average dispropotionally.

Is it any surprise that people are claiming that Vettori's Av. is coming down and he is bowling better when in his 1st 55 tests he played the minnows only 7 times but played them 4 times in his last 12 tests.

Using Vettoris recent form as an indication of improvement is dangerous because he has played a high percentage of recent games against the poorer teams.

Loony Bob, as for bringing Warne into the argument, you could not have mentioned a worse guy to help your argument. I guess you have not done your homework.

Warne has played 136 tests and a grand total of 1 against Zim and Bangladesh combined.

It doesn't quite compare when talking about 'skewing' the accuracy of averages