***Official*** West Indies in New Zealand

[Dick Rockett]

If he's so good now, how come his record against the non-minnows is so bad?

He has a good record against West Indies and Sri Lanka. He has an OK record against Australia and England, against the rest, yes, it's ordinary.

However, as I've already pointed out, for a lot of his career, he's not had the luxury of any support from quality bowlers - in fact those bowlers have often been a liability, bleeding runs. Stephen Fleming has frequently had to resort to using Vettori as a stock bowler with the sole intent of stemming that flow of runs, and a quick glance at his workload (especially the recent tests against Australia) shows that. Under such circumstances he's not been able to utilise all his skills.

Now, with Shane Bond taking wickets and good support from some lesser lights, he's able to use his full armoury, and it's working. Dan has been bowling very well in the current series, and taking wickets. Now, I hope you're not going to suggest that a batting lineup that contains the likes of Chris Gayle, Brian Lara, Ramnaresh Sarwan and Shiv Chanderpaul is full of bunnies?

 

[sirjeremy11]

He has a good record against West Indies and Sri Lanka. He has an OK record against Australia and England, against the rest, yes, it's ordinary.

However, as I've already pointed out, for a lot of his career, he's not had the luxury of any support from quality bowlers - in fact those bowlers have often been a liability, bleeding runs. Stephen Fleming has frequently had to resort to using Vettori as a stock bowler with the sole intent of stemming that flow of runs, and a quick glance at his workload (especially the recent tests against Australia) shows that. Under such circumstances he's not been able to utilise all his skills.

Now, with Shane Bond taking wickets and good support from some lesser lights, he's able to use his full armoury, and it's working. Dan has been bowling very well in the current series, and taking wickets. Now, I hope you're not going to suggest that a batting lineup that contains the likes of Chris Gayle, Brian Lara, Ramnaresh Sarwan and Shiv Chanderpaul is full of bunnies?

Better than I could have put it. Yes, his record vs Pak and RSA is bad. I give up on the Vettori argument. Makes me say things that make me not compute aahhhhh...

 

[Dick Rockett]

You're probably right. We should let it slide. We're the ones who watch him play, and although marc has some good points, the fact is he's probably not seen Vettori at his best.

I mean, look at Fidel Edwards - been bowling great on this tour, but his averages aren't spectacular.

 

[sirjeremy11]

You're probably right. We should let it slide. We're the ones who watch him play, and although marc has some good points, the fact is he's probably not seen Vettori at his best.

I mean, look at Fidel Edwards - been bowling great on this tour, but his averages aren't spectacular.

I wish my brain would work today.

Yes, I have to say that my opinion of Fidel, previously influenced by seeing his average and reading reports, has changed considerably.

I wish we could get Benaud on here to give his opinions on Vettori. He loves him.

 

[sirjeremy11]

I didn't know this...

"One day, while returning from a soccer match in his school minivan, the driver fell asleep and crashed. Daniel broke two vertebrae in his back, his nose and a cheekbone when the minivan rolled down and embankment. Daniel missed out on doing his exams that students sit at 16, but got through to do his bursary because his grades were good anyway. The accident also had an impact on his cricket, with him changing his style from fast bowling to spin."

 

[NZTailender]

I didn't know that either. Interesting.

If I may repeat myself..

Vettori's only 27, so he's got a while ahead of him. I think we'll see the best of him in the coming years.

 

[James]

Bond returns

 

[sirjeremy11]

Bond returns

Anyone else think that the photo of Shane Bond in this article makes the great man look like a gimp?

 

[Dasa]

If he's so good now, how come his record against the non-minnows is so bad?

Why single out Vettori for criticism? The fact is (as numerous other people have said), he does a good job for New Zealand and there's no one better to replace him. Add to that his more than useful lower order batting, why would you want to get rid of him? He's certainly not a great, but is good for the job he does, much like Giles who you've argued for in many cases.

 

[James]

Anyone else think that the photo of Shane Bond in this article makes the great man look like a gimp?

LOL - I took that photo

 

[sirjeremy11]

Why single out Vettori for criticism? The fact is (as numerous other people have said), he does a good job for New Zealand and there's no one better to replace him. Add to that his more than useful lower order batting, why would you want to get rid of him? He's certainly not a great, but is good for the job he does, much like Giles who you've argued for in many cases.

I think that a problem that a lot of people have is that many say that Vettori is a lot better than Giles - and statistically he isn't.

 

[Dick Rockett]

I think that a problem that a lot of people have is that many say that Vettori is a lot better than Giles - and statistically he isn't.

Actually he is. Giles' average stands at 39.6 vs Vettori's 34.43. Giles also averages above 30 against every other test side (including ZIM and BAN), except the Windies.

 

[sirjeremy11]

I meant isn't a lot better. But I thought Giles average was a bit closer than that so there you go.

Anyway, back to the cricket at hand. Flem says this morning that the pitch in Napier is expected to be good for batting. That would be good for such players as How, Marshall, Lara etc. See if they can get some form.

 

[NZTailender]

Yeah, I hope the next test is a real high scoring match. A couple of centuries form each side would make it a good match.

 

[ohtani's jacket]

Why are people worried about Vettori?

It's not as though he's bowling badly. I've been impressed with his appeals -- he looks like he's enjoying his cricket, not worrying about whether he's ****-house. McCullum & Vettori together make for a great appeal.

I can only assume that it's a general criticism, which is strange for such an unassuming player. Dan Vettori plays cricket the way it should be played: in a positive manner. Considering the form slump he went through, he's entitled to feel happy about his bowling. To insinuate that he's a rubbish bowler is pretty harsh for a guy who just gets on with it.

Regardless of how good he is, he's about to become NZ's second leading wicket taker. Considering that most of New Zealand's significant bowlers have averaged over 30, it's not that big a deal.

 

[sirjeremy11]

Yeah, I hope the next test is a real high scoring match. A couple of centuries form each side would make it a good match.

I hope it is for one of the teams. The other one, I hope they get blown away by Bondy.

 

[ohtani's jacket]

I'm leaving for Japan on Saturday, but hope you guys get to see the West Indies bat for longer, because some of those guys have real style.

 

[sirjeremy11]

Sure. I would love to watch Gayle go nuts, and Lara get class.

I used to really love watching Chanderpaul play too. He is Jimmy Adamsing out on me though.

 

[Blaze]

My problem with Vettori is that the media make him out to be a strike bowler. They talk about him in the same bracket as Bond in terms of our wicket takers when the fact is that Vettori doesn't take many wickets. Fleming can't just throw him the ball and say 'I need a wicket' like he can with Bond.

 

[marc71178]

You can apply that argument to every single bowler. You'll find that most players who have been around a while have better records against the minnows, and that if you remove those stats, their averages will worsen.

But not by that much.

An average of over 48 becomes just over 31 because of 4 matches - now that is skewed.