*Official* Warne vs Murali Discussion

[Top_Cat]

IMO, Murali plays right into the cretins' (notice that was plural) hands by making a song and dance about it.

I'm sorry but I can't agree with you here, mate. It infers that Murali, because he can't take it as a joke or just brush it off, he's to blame and encourages it by getting offended. That's a bit 'blame the victim' for my liking. Not everyone is capable of ignoring abuse in the same way as someone like Warnie is (and even then, he had to develop that thick-skin; anyone else remember his send-off of Andrew Hudson in 1994?). And Warnie has had his fair share of dummy spits, too; his cry-baby display when someone commented on his weight next to the wax figurine, for example. And he generally takes the opportunity to criticise the press. So would you advocate he should keep his mouth shut and play up to it? Sure, Nel loves the attention. Negative, positive, it's all gravy to him. But the stuff from the crowd to Murali just seems to have a much meaner edge to it. Quite threatening, really.

Murali has every right to be upset with crowd behaviour at him. It's not for anyone else to judge how upset he should be or act because he simply might not have the right psychology to brush it off. Being offended is a personal thing and I don't think we should judge him on his reaction.

 

[luckyeddie]

IMO, Murali plays right into the cretins' (notice that was plural) hands by making a song and dance about it.

I agree with you there to a certain extent, but the phrase 'cultural differences' springs to mind.

Two examples -

1. The furore on here the other day when just about every member with Indian or Pakistani ancestry gave me a kicking (and I still can't work out why).

2. The fact that half the world appears to be burning something (and the other half appears not to understand why).

 

[social]

I'm sorry but I can't agree with you here, mate. It infers that Murali, because he can't take it as a joke or just brush it off, he's to blame and encourages it by getting offended. That's a bit 'blame the victim' for my liking. Not everyone is capable of ignoring abuse in the same way as someone like Warnie is (and even then, he had to develop that thick-skin; anyone else remember his send-off of Andrew Hudson in 1994?). And Warnie has had his fair share of dummy spits, too; his cry-baby display when someone commented on his weight next to the wax figurine, for example. And he generally takes the opportunity to criticise the press. So would you advocate he should keep his mouth shut and play up to it? Sure, Nel loves the attention. Negative, positive, it's all gravy to him. But the stuff from the crowd to Murali just seems to have a much meaner edge to it. Quite threatening, really.

Murali has every right to be upset with crowd behaviour at him. It's not for anyone else to judge how upset he should be or act because he simply might not have the right psychology to brush it off. Being offended is a personal thing and I don't think we should judge him on his reaction.

The trouble is that his current stance only serves to exacerbate the situation.

The "offender" (and I didnt see him so have no idea how he was dressed) sought a particular reaction - and got one.

Unfortunately, that will only serve as further incentive for like-minded prats to do the same.

Murali ignores it, is successful on the field, and takes action through the proper channels, then he has done his job.

In the meantime, this guy goes around looking like the prize dolt that he is.

If Aus authorities are powerless, or unwilling, to do something about his complaint, then we have a real problem.

 

[Deja moo]

Yeah Moo, Blame Dalmiya for the Tsunami also..

Really, get a dictionary. Look up the words "allegedly" (and "rivalry" too while you're at it)

 

[social]

I agree with you there to a certain extent, but the phrase 'cultural differences' springs to mind.

Two examples -

1. The furore on here the other day when just about every member with Indian or Pakistani ancestry gave me a kicking (and I still can't work out why).

2. The fact that half the world appears to be burning something (and the other half appears not to understand why).

"Cultural differences" also implies that there is more than one culture involved.

Murali has taken a stance based on his culture.

This stance, cultural differences included, is absolutely correct from most people's view-point.

However, as it appears that he desires almost universal acceptance (an impossible dream, I might add) fromAus cricket watchers, it is obvious to me that he needs to temper his approach. After all, a similar stance didnt work 10 years ago and it is no more likely to work today.

Should nothing change, both those Aus cricket watchers that want nothing more than to see him bowl (myself included) and Murali will be the losers.

 

[luckyeddie]

Really, get a dictionary. Look up the words "allegedly" (and "rivalry" too while you're at it)

A 'law talking guy' friend of mine gave me the following insight into one of the words:

allegedly - I am unable or unwilling to go to the trouble to substantiate the allegation, but I wish to use it anyway because the shadow it casts suits my argument

I have no wish to debate "rivalry" with you in more than one thread

 

[Deja moo]

A 'law talking guy' friend of mine gave me the following insight into one of the words:

allegedly - I am unable or unwilling to go to the trouble to substantiate the allegation, but I wish to use it anyway because the shadow it casts suits my argument

Providing an alternate point of view is not the same as an argument necessarily. If it really was 'my argument', believe me, I wouldn't shy away from defending it as the 'truth'.

I have no wish to debate "rivalry" with you in more than one thread

It wasn't an invitation.

 

[honestbharani]

To be fair, he has chosen not to play so hasnt been subject to anything.

Murali's problem, like Hadlee before him, is that he reacts to the crowd in the wrong fashion.

Look at Andre Nel, by way of comparison. He copped every bit as much as Murali did this season but used the crowd's reaction to his advantage.

At the end of the day, he enjoyed it and so did the crowd.

Warne gets at least as bad a reaction in almost every country that he plays but he learnt how to thrive on it.

Way things are going, Murali may not be back and I can almost guarantee that he'll regret it more than the Aus crowds

Every person is different. And Nel is not being called a "chucker" and a "cheat". There is no use asking established and talented sportsmen to change simply because a few idiots in Australia think he is a cheat.

 

[honestbharani]

didn't know about this....where do they jeer/insult/abuse warne? also according to you, as bad as the aussies treat murali???

we had Warney chants going up in Chennai all three times he has played here. HE was the one who brought up being hit to all parts by Sachin and he even had fun with us by imitating how Sachin used to hit him.

 

[honestbharani]

Oh, try the entire cricketing world!

Take the last Ashes series as an example.

Booed at every ground, harassed by the paparazzi off the field, takes 40 wickets for the series and gets a standing ovation at the end.

Or Bree Lee in NZ.

Feared before the start of the series, condemned because he bowled a beamer (irrelevant that it was unintentional), and then was pelted with oranges, water bottles and a chair!

HE has always got great receptions in India.

 

[honestbharani]

Warne would know that he's respected (and even if he wasnt, the fat pillock would convince himself that he was) but the difference is in attitude.

People abuse Warne and he lifts his performance and shoves it down your throat.

People abuse Murali here and he whines about it.

Unfortunately, youre never going to change the cretins behaviour but you can neutralise it.

IMO, Murali plays right into the cretins' (notice that was plural) hands by making a song and dance about it.

I always thought it was those idiots in the Aussie crowds who WHINE, Murali is just a champion cricketer who has never personally abused another cricketer in his career and who has always played in the best spirit the game can be played in. Yet, he has still been the fiercest competitor possible within all those sportive parameters he has set for himself. HE has given his 110% EVERYTIME with the ball and in the field. Just because he cannot cut a good joke to the crowd who label him a cheat, doesn't mean he is any less a man. Those idiots in Australia deserve to be condemned publicly because they show a shocking neglect for THE TRUTH.

 

[Ikki]

Sorry ladies and gents. Whether Murali, or his supporters, want to admit or not he will always have a question mark over his head. The heat of the debate has and will be fueled until there is an accepted reform in the legislation pertaining to this issue. Even then it will always stain his career. So whether he can take abuse or not, he doesn't do anyone any favours (most importantly himself) by using such gestures or boycotting Australia. Depending on if he wants universal acceptance here, he must go about it in a different approach, because as aforementioned rivalry breeds such climates. Whether it is Australia, South Africa or Pakistan, there will always be something for your opponents to cling to...the worst thing to do is play into their hands. Beat them on the pitch and that will speak volumes. Leave the rest out of it. It's accepted he's been stressed but he should not be exonerated and neither should ANYONE resulting in a rude manner.

Keep your integrity Murali.

 

[C_C]

Sorry ladies and gents. Whether Murali, or his supporters, want to admit or not he will always have a question mark over his head. The heat of the debate has and will be fueled until there is an accepted reform in the legislation pertaining to this issue. Even then it will always stain his career. So whether he can take abuse or not, he doesn't do anyone any favours (most importantly himself) by using such gestures or boycotting Australia. Depending on if he wants universal acceptance here, he must go about it in a different approach, because as aforementioned rivalry breeds such climates. Whether it is Australia, South Africa or Pakistan, there will always be something for your opponents to cling to...the worst thing to do is play into their hands. Beat them on the pitch and that will speak volumes. Leave the rest out of it. It's accepted he's been stressed but he should not be exonerated and neither should ANYONE resulting in a rude manner.

Keep your integrity Murali.

Well whether you like to admit it or not, the bulk of anti-Murali comments stem from Australia, leading one to believe that there are way too many Aussie cricket fans who are slaves to their jingoism and ego, not to mention, ignorant about the rules of the game and facts pertaining to it. Murali has less question-marks associated with him than Warne does in my opinion.
And Murali is under no obligation to play in OZ - if he doesnt feel he is treated with the minimum decency there(and he isnt), he is under no obligation to travel and play in OZ.
I know i wouldnt give a toss about OZ and playing in OZ if i were in Murali's shoes.
Perhaps the Aussies advocating in favour of idjits and their behaviour need to get some perspective, realise that it is a sport and discourage those kinda idiotic premeditated behaviour to deeply offend anyone instead of being sanctimonious about how to deal with those kinda abusive behaviour.

 

[Tom Halsey]

You're missing an important point. While Nel was jeered there was a respect behind that, and it was always in good humour...you speak to most Aussie cricket fans and they would profess to still respect Nel, whereas with Murali the amount of vitriolic hate for the man is just incredible. There is no respect in jeering Murali, it's based purely on trying to demoralise him because an ignorant populace has deemed him a cheat.

I highly doubt that.

 

[C_C]

The impression i am getting here is that there are quite a few berks in the Aussie crowd, who'd do just about anything and get away with just about any kind of behaviour (justification: they are berks, so pay no attention to them) and openly abuse players the world over. And now one player has had enough and decieded that he doesnt wanna visit OZ again...and its this player's fault and the player has the wrong perspective !!?! Just why exactly should a player perform in front of a hostile crowd again ? When your objective is to entertain, why bother with a region that is rabidly against you and the only entertainment they will ever get is you getting pasted around the park ?

 

[Tom Halsey]

Oh, try the entire cricketing world!

Take the last Ashes series as an example.

Booed at every ground, harassed by the paparazzi off the field, takes 40 wickets for the series and gets a standing ovation at the end.

Or Bree Lee in NZ.

Feared before the start of the series, condemned because he bowled a beamer (irrelevant that it was unintentional), and then was pelted with oranges, water bottles and a chair!

Dunno about Lee, but Warne's always been thought of as a legend over here.

 

[JASON]

So whether he can take abuse or not, he doesn't do anyone any favours (most importantly himself) by using such gestures or boycotting Australia. Depending on if he wants universal acceptance here, he must go about it in a different approach, because as aforementioned rivalry breeds such climates.

I have been disappointed with Murali's inability to ignore these and get on, but then when he is standing near the fence and a whole bunch of people start riling you and mocking you and calling you a chucker, it can be very hard to ignore it and keep focussed .

Which is why I am really annoyed that SL's idiot Captain Atapattu did not have the brains to avoid this and protect his player by ensuring the guy only fielded close in ie Mid-on /Midoff etc.

It's accepted he's been stressed but he should not be exonerated and neither should ANYONE resulting in a rude manner.

Keep your integrity Murali.

I agree with that . No one Murali or even God cannot be exonerated of Bad behaviour !!

 

[dontcloseyoureyes]

I highly doubt that.

It's actually true as far as my reach goes, people I know don't like him [personally I love him] but they respect him because he shows that fighting spirit. He got booed and booed and booed and booed yet kept charging in, kept getting wickets and kept smiling back at the crowd. He gave it all for his country and we all saw that, and respected it.

 

[C_C]

It's actually true as far as my reach goes, people I know don't like him [personally I love him] but they respect him because he shows that fighting spirit. He got booed and booed and booed and booed yet kept charging in, kept getting wickets and kept smiling back at the crowd. He gave it all for his country and we all saw that, and respected it.

Is it just me or is there something extremely perverse about the whole ' Lets pile heaps of abuse on this person...heaps and heaps of it...if he doesnt react, after a while, lets stop and start respecting him....if he does react to it, he is a tosser, so pile on more abuse' ???
It sounds like the perfect 'bully' mentality.

 

[social]

It's not about respecting him if he doesnt react to provocation.

Some already respect him.

Some will respect him if he performs.

Others never will.