Official Warne vs Murali Discussion

honestbharani · Feb 8, 2006

I am saying that what happened to Hadlee was wrong as well. Just because Murali is taking it more personally is not HIS fault. The crowd were wrong then with Hadlee and they are wrong now about Murali. Hadlee didn't take it personally, may be because of his culture but Murali is taking it personally and honestly, since they are PERSONAL insults aimed at him, I don't see why he is in the wrong here. The idiots in the crowd must be told to behave properly or else stay back at home. They certainly don't deserve to see class acts like Murali or Hadlee, for that matter. That is my point.

Ikki · Feb 8, 2006

Calling someone a chucker equates with racist remarks? Sooner or later they might as well censor everything said to make the sport something like Tennis. As much as I side with Murali in that the crowd aren't being good-spirited and stressing him, I cannot exonerate him for his actions, and neither should you. To respond in that manner IS his fault. He is an example to many people around the world and it is actually a worse offense if someone of his stature does so. The best thing for him is to learn to deal with such dealings because crowds being insulting is as much apart of the game as crowds cheering you.

Murali is ticked off for being called a chucker as Warne used to be for the fat chants. No matter who you are the opposition will search for something to bring you down, the best reverse to that is to not lower your own integrity and hence play on, play hard, and if possible win.

honestbharani · Feb 9, 2006

KaZoH0lic said:
Calling someone a chucker equates with racist remarks? Sooner or later they might as well censor everything said to make the sport something like Tennis. As much as I side with Murali in that the crowd aren't being good-spirited and stressing him, I cannot exonerate him for his actions, and neither should you. To respond in that manner IS his fault. He is an example to many people around the world and it is actually a worse offense if someone of his stature does so. The best thing for him is to learn to deal with such dealings because crowds being insulting is as much apart of the game as crowds cheering you.

Murali is ticked off for being called a chucker as Warne used to be for the fat chants. No matter who you are the opposition will search for something to bring you down, the best reverse to that is to not lower your own integrity and hence play on, play hard, and if possible win.

Calling someone a "chucker" and shouting No Ball everytime he bowls is questioning the said players' integrity and like I said earlier, it would hurt most subcontinental cricketers if such stuff was directed at them. And if you are taking about him giving the idiots the finger, yes it was wrong but it was just a one off when he UNDERSTANDABLY lost his cool. But if you are talking about him complaining, that is not wrong at all. Questioning a players' integrity is a very serious thing for subcontinental people. It is time you guys understood that. He doesn't have to change for anybody. Those idiots are the ones who need to change. Murali has nothing to prove to anyone. If the majority of the Aussie crowds want to see Murali in action in their shores, they have to try and cut those idiots to size. I am really APPALLED to see so many guys here somehow turning on this on Murali and making it seem as though it were his fault.

C_C · Feb 9, 2006

KaZoH0lic said:
Calling someone a chucker equates with racist remarks?

No, turning up in a game with bootblack on your face and heckling players is a racist thing to do. Wonder how many Aussies took action upon seeing that

Murali is ticked off for being called a chucker as Warne used to be for the fat chants. No matter who you are the opposition will search for something to bring you down, the best reverse to that is to not lower your own integrity and hence play on, play hard, and if possible win.

Sorry but willful ignorance is equivalent of complicity. Murali has no reason whatsoever to play in OZ, given the treatment he is given there. If a buncha idiots in the crowd subjects a player to abuse, the onus is on the rest of the society to discipline those players. Not expect the player to carry on regardless.

FaaipDeOiad · Feb 9, 2006

honestbharani said:
That is not what I meant. What I meant was, when the racism issue came in this year, there were speeches from everybody (Ponting, Sutherland, Speed etc.) and the CA people threatened to take severe action against the perpetrators of such abuses. I am asking why similar stuff be done to curb these idiots who are chanting against Murali. It is obvious he is being insulted just as many as the Proteas were and it is also obvious that these are just as personal.

Because it's a different issue, in every respect. When Murali bowls, crowds in Australia shout "no ball", and when Gillespie fielded on the fence during the Ashes, the English crowds make jokes about his hair. That's how it goes.

Racism is a zero tolerance issue, sledging opposition players from the stands is not. I'm not suggesting it's a good thing, but it happens to every player.

honestbharani · Feb 9, 2006

FaaipDeOiad said:
Because it's a different issue, in every respect. When Murali bowls, crowds in Australia shout "no ball", and when Gillespie fielded on the fence during the Ashes, the English crowds make jokes about his hair. That's how it goes.

Racism is a zero tolerance issue, sledging opposition players from the stands is not. I'm not suggesting it's a good thing, but it happens to every player.

So, I return to my earlier point..... Is it okay if some crowds in India and around the world starts calling Shane Warne "you ****ing *** addict, drug cheat and wife-cheater" etc ?

luckyeddie · Feb 9, 2006

honestbharani said:
So, I return to my earlier point..... Is it okay if some crowds in India and around the world starts calling Shane Warne "you ****ing *** addict, drug cheat and wife-cheater" etc ?

Only if you're selling - otherwise Warney might mistake you for Glenn McGrath.

Ikki · Feb 9, 2006

honestbharani said:
Calling someone a "chucker" and shouting No Ball everytime he bowls is questioning the said players' integrity and like I said earlier, it would hurt most subcontinental cricketers if such stuff was directed at them. And if you are taking about him giving the idiots the finger, yes it was wrong but it was just a one off when he UNDERSTANDABLY lost his cool. But if you are talking about him complaining, that is not wrong at all. Questioning a players' integrity is a very serious thing for subcontinental people. It is time you guys understood that. He doesn't have to change for anybody. Those idiots are the ones who need to change. Murali has nothing to prove to anyone. If the majority of the Aussie crowds want to see Murali in action in their shores, they have to try and cut those idiots to size. I am really APPALLED to see so many guys here somehow turning on this on Murali and making it seem as though it were his fault.

I think you might be taking what is said the wrong way mate. No one is saying he didn't have a right to be upset. The point is whether someone of his stature diminish his own integrity. Two wrongs do not make a right my friend, and for all your sympathy for the sub-continental sentiments, the rule of law stands firm in Australia.

You're right that people should change in terms of their behaviour, but what you're asking is easier said than done, and instead of whinging about the problem, maybe offer a solution? It would be a very hard process in keeping up with people just because they're taunting a bowler. As I said, people will label you as a chucker or fat or any other slurs no matter who you are. Just because 1% of the population is ignorant enough to make it racial it is not suffice to punish the larger populus.

I understand you're upset, obviously you're a big fan of Murali, but his retaliation, if not legitamtely correct, should NEVER be condoned. It can be excused, but you're condoning it.

Ikki · Feb 9, 2006

C_C said:
No, turning up in a game with bootblack on your face and heckling players is a racist thing to do. Wonder how many Aussies took action upon seeing that

How many people did that? I see...

You're missing the point...you cannot punish everybody because of one such person. Punish whoever conducts themselves in that manner, the rest are free to do whatever else they wish. Including calling someone a chucker.

C_C said:
Sorry but willful ignorance is equivalent of complicity. Murali has no reason whatsoever to play in OZ, given the treatment he is given there. If a buncha idiots in the crowd subjects a player to abuse, the onus is on the rest of the society to discipline those players. Not expect the player to carry on regardless.

Trust me mate, Murali not playing here is not a huge deal for the majority of Australians. If they wish to see great cricketers there are plenty. And those with more of a tolerance. Calling a person a chucker will be an unpopular action, but is it legal and I think people are within their rights to do as such. Being racist is another matter.

honestbharani said:
So, I return to my earlier point..... Is it okay if some crowds in India and around the world starts calling Shane Warne "you ****ing *** addict, drug cheat and wife-cheater" etc ?

No it isn't okay. I ask you to stick to relativity. Are personal insults like that are more insulting or being called a chucker. You take the route to subjectify the issue and make calling someone a chucker or screaming "no-ball" as a HUGE offense. I'm sorry mate, call Warne a chucker or any other player. That's okay. That's cricket mate, even the Gillespie thing, it's a sledge. If they called Murali ugly and the sub-continent's hobbit you would still kick up dust. Why? It happens to all sportsmen...really...if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen, which is what Murali is doing. What I stated above was that Murali should soldier on and prove his case through his performance...but if he wants to walk away that will garner no respect or like from any Aussie, or any country he does abandon. That's IF he cares...if he doesn't then good luck to him...the last thing you can do is MAKE someone like you.

dontcloseyoureyes · Feb 9, 2006

benchmark00 · Feb 9, 2006

honestbharani said:
So, I return to my earlier point..... Is it okay if some crowds in India and around the world starts calling Shane Warne "you ****ing *** addict, drug cheat and wife-cheater" etc ?

Basically, yes, without the swear word. Theres no f bomb thrown in with 'No ball'.

And on the point of Murali not needing to play in Australia, ofcourse he has to, it's his job. If he didnt he'd have another label... selfish.

As much as we hate it, fan taunts are apart of the game, learn to deal with it, what i dont condone, and noone does, is racial taunts, and as 'chuckers' aren't a race, it's all above board in my opinion.

C_C · Feb 9, 2006

How many people did that? I see...

You're missing the point...you cannot punish everybody because of one such person. Punish whoever conducts themselves in that manner, the rest are free to do whatever else they wish. Including calling someone a chucker.

So was that someone punished or did he get away scott free ?

Trust me mate, Murali not playing here is not a huge deal for the majority of Australians. If they wish to see great cricketers there are plenty. And those with more of a tolerance. Calling a person a chucker will be an unpopular action, but is it legal and I think people are within their rights to do as such. Being racist is another matter.

If it isnt a huge deal, then why do so many of you moan about it ? You speak as if 'tolerating' abuse is a good thing. Sorry but there is no reason to tolerate abuse.

That's okay. That's cricket mate, even the Gillespie thing, it's a sledge.

The entire point is, to eliminate sledging, atleast from the crowd. Promote decency, not accept indecency and uncouthness.

Ikki · Feb 9, 2006

C_C said:
So was that someone punished or did he get away scott free ?

If it isnt a huge deal, then why do so many of you moan about it ? You speak as if 'tolerating' abuse is a good thing. Sorry but there is no reason to tolerate abuse.

The entire point is, to eliminate sledging, atleast from the crowd. Promote decency, not accept indecency and uncouthness.

Watch Tennis mate.

C_C · Feb 9, 2006

KaZoH0lic said:
Watch Tennis mate.

And ?!
Justification is tantamount to guilt. Remember that.
Its rather sickening that people are normalising poor behaviour and asking players to accept them. What a barbaric viewpoint!

Ikki · Feb 9, 2006

I asked for HonestB to give an account for improvement. I ask you to do the same.

dontcloseyoureyes · Feb 9, 2006

C_C said:
And ?!
Justification is tantamount to guilt. Remember that.
Its rather sickening that people are normalising poor behaviour and asking players to accept them. What a barbaric viewpoint!

Yes, we're all monkeys okay get over it you win.

C_C · Feb 9, 2006

dontcloseyoureyes said:
Yes, we're all monkeys okay get over it you win.

This is not about winning or losing !!!
If you hold the 'we win they lose' viewpoint, you never change and you never learn. Seems like that is valid for an awefully lot of people here.

C_C · Feb 9, 2006

KaZoH0lic said:
I asked for HonestB to give an account for improvement. I ask you to do the same.

Simple question - what happened to the tosser with bootblack on his face ?
Did he get charged for race-crimes or not ?
What would've been the response if the same guy sat in the crowd doing a seig heil ?
Consitency please!

Ikki · Feb 9, 2006

C_C said:
This is not about winning or losing !!!
If you hold the 'we win they lose' viewpoint, you never change and you never learn. Seems like that is valid for an awefully lot of people here.

Unfortunately, you neither change or learn. To preach about those virtues is hypocritical.

dontcloseyoureyes · Feb 9, 2006

C_C said:
This is not about winning or losing !!!
If you hold the 'we win they lose' viewpoint, you never change and you never learn. Seems like that is valid for an awefully lot of people here.

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