*Official* Third Test (Headingley, Leeds) 6–10 July

[Spofforth]

3-0 would not have felt right with the way this series has been played.

Hold yer tongue there fella.

This is how I know the universe is not infinite. Simply because there can never be any permutations or combination of universal forces in which a loss to the poms can ever feel "right".

 

[Spofforth]

I wouldn't mind telling Green and his confidence to forget the bowling and move him to opener while swapping Warner to 6. That way it won't matter when the innings grinds to a screeching halt because Green can't find a single to save himself, or if he takes a couple of hours to get one off the square, while Warner mid innings against an old ball might work.

I realise that the ability go slow can be a good thing, just not all the time. Then again, I'm not a fan of seam up type "all rounders" in general because of how rarely it works. Overall I'd be happier with a plain old test quality batsman who might average 40+ at six.

 

[Spark]

I wouldn't mind telling Green and his confidence to forget the bowling and move him to opener while swapping Warner to 6. That way it won't matter when the innings grinds to a screeching halt because Green can't find a single to save himself, or if he takes a couple of hours to get one off the square, while Warner mid innings against an old ball might work.

I realise that the ability go slow can be a good thing, just not all the time. Then again, I'm not a fan of seam up type "all rounders" in general because of how rarely it works. Overall I'd be happier with a plain old test quality batsman who might average 40+ at six.

"How rarely it works" is a really odd thing to say about a series in which having a surfeit bowling options and not being shorthanded has been decisive at times. Can you imagine how disastrous Lord's would have been with just three fit frontline bowlers? England have needed all their bowling options too.

 

[Prince EWS]

"How rarely it works" is a really odd thing to say about a series in which having a surfeit bowling options and not being shorthanded has been decisive at times. Can you imagine how disastrous Lord's would have been with just three fit frontline bowlers? England have needed all their bowling options too.

Haha I love that the Spoffoth post came right after the post I made in the other thread which you agreed with.

 

[halba]

I wouldn't mind telling Green and his confidence to forget the bowling and move him to opener while swapping Warner to 6. That way it won't matter when the innings grinds to a screeching halt because Green can't find a single to save himself, or if he takes a couple of hours to get one off the square, while Warner mid innings against an old ball might work.

I realise that the ability go slow can be a good thing, just not all the time. Then again, I'm not a fan of seam up type "all rounders" in general because of how rarely it works. Overall I'd be happier with a plain old test quality batsman who might average 40+ at six.

australia wont find any test batters at 40+. this is because they are not producing any genuine talents at FC level.
The team will go very poorly post Khawaja, Lyon and Smith era.

 

[Spofforth]

"How rarely it works" is a really odd thing to say about a series in which having a surfeit bowling options and not being shorthanded has been decisive at times. Can you imagine how disastrous Lord's would have been with just three fit frontline bowlers? England have needed all their bowling options too.

But we did play that match with three frontline quicks. It's quite a stretch to claim Green as a frontline quick, if that's what you're saying. His problem is that he seems neither your arse nor your elbow. The opposite argument is that an extra batsmen could give you more runs to play with and the bowlers a longer break.

The way I see it is that if your 3 quicks and spinner can't get the job done with some part timers, that's because they aren't good enough. I don't really care what the poms do (in that regard). Perhaps I'm too old fashioned.

 

[Spark]

But we did play that match with three frontline quicks. It's quite a stretch to claim Green as a frontline quick, if that's what you're saying. His problem is that he seems neither your arse nor your elbow. The opposite argument is that an extra batsmen could give you more runs to play with and the bowlers a longer break.

The way I see it is that if your 3 quicks and spinner can't get the job done with some part timers, that's because they aren't good enough. I don't really care what the poms do (in that regard). Perhaps I'm too old fashioned.

The point is that Green was at least able to take overs off the three frontline quicks, despite being workload managed, and keep them fresh enough to be able to bowl at maximum capacity in spells of reasonable duration. I don't see how an extra batsman - who is this extra batsman anyway - remotely compensates for that.

Part timers are not an adequate compensation. People keep suggesting this and it never works. Your part timers in this series would bowl 5 overs a day for 40 the way this series has been going. At least Green looks capable of taking poles when used properly.

It's just insane to me that people are willing to drop manifestly the most talented cricketer we've had in ten years in the dustbin simply because he's not Jacques Kallis by the age of 24.

The bolded is particularly just insane to me. We should just accept hamstringing our team because of some vague ideological constraint because if they're not able to get it done on their own without getting tired - which they will - then they're just too bad? This sort of macho nonsense is a real weight on Australian cricket imo.

 

[Prince EWS]

The point is that Green was at least able to take overs off the three frontline quicks, despite being workload managed, and keep them fresh enough to be able to bowl at maximum capacity in spells of reasonable duration. I don't see how an extra batsman - who is this extra batsman anyway - remotely compensates for that.

Part timers are not an adequate compensation. People keep suggesting this and it never works. Your part timers in this series would bowl 5 overs a day for 40 the way this series has been going. At least Green looks capable of taking poles when used properly.

It's just insane to me that people are willing to drop manifestly the most talented cricketer we've had in ten years in the dustbin simply because he's not Jacques Kallis by the age of 24.

The bolded is particularly just insane to me. We should just accept hamstringing our team because of some vague ideological constraint because if they're not able to get it done on their own without getting tired - which they will - then they're just too bad? This sort of macho nonsense is a real weight on Australian cricket imo.

"We should always pick the team based on my rigid preconceived idea of what makes a good cricketer, and if we lose it's because we ****, even if selecting a different balance would've won us the game."

 

[Spark]

Also this whole discussion gets to one of my other bugbears: discussions about Australian cricket pretending that Australia don't play away Tests that aren't in England. He was good in Pakistan (without setting the world on fire, but still played an important part in the decisive Test win), was literally man of the match in one of the games in SL, and immediately made the side look a million times more balanced when he came back in to India (and was one of our best batsmen to boot). The only reason we're entertaining this discussion at all is because people just don't care about any cricket that's not on FTA.

 

[Gob]

Also this whole discussion gets to one of my other bugbears: discussions about Australian cricket pretending that Australia don't play away Tests that aren't in England. He was good in Pakistan (without setting the world on fire, but still played an important part in the decisive Test win), was literally man of the match in one of the games in SL, and immediately made the side look a million times more balanced when he came back in to India (and was one of our best batsmen to boot). The only reason we're entertaining this discussion at all is because people just don't care about any cricket that's not on FTA.

Yeah Mitchell Marsh played one of the best innings I've seen in recent years and deserves to hold his place but I really liked the development they had with Green. It's kind of weird because Green has done **** all in UK so far but had it been Green left with Head going in to the 3rd day, I may have felt more confident. Just don't think MMarsh can survive much playing conventionally

 

[social]

I’m as big a critic of Marcus Harris as you will find BUT the biggest problem with him is not his batting.

He MIGHT average the same as 2023 Warner with the bat but he’s a liability in the field & at least Warner can catch

 

[Aidan11]

Apologies if this has already been mentioned but I see that Alastair Cook has apologised for the Alex Carey haircut story and accepted that it was not true.

 

[Spark]

I’m as big a critic of Marcus Harris as you will find BUT the biggest problem with him is not his batting.

He MIGHT average the same as 2023 Warner with the bat but he’s a liability in the field & at least Warner can catch

No I think the biggest problem with an opener who hasn't yet notched up a score of 80 in 14 Tests and only 3 50+ scores in 26 innings by the age of 31 is absolutely the batting.

 

[Spark]

And a reminder that for all the crap Green cops for his batting he has over twice the number of 50+ scores in only 8 more innings.

 

[Nintendo]

And a reminder that for all the crap Green cops for his batting he has over twice the number of 50+ scores in only 8 more innings.

But he's not Keith Miller or Early career Ian Botham!!!!???!!!!

 

[wpdavid]

Yeah not like he (Wood) played a glorious extra cover drive when the game was still tense or anything

Champagne moment of the whole test imo.

 

[Nintendo]

"How rarely it works" is a really odd thing to say about a series in which having a surfeit bowling options and not being shorthanded has been decisive at times. Can you imagine how disastrous Lord's would have been with just three fit frontline bowlers? England have needed all their bowling options too.

Yeah 5th bowling options are crucial nowadays, especially with the lack of time between tests. Cummins was clearly knackered last test in the second dig but had to keep bowling cause he didn't trust marsh/Murphy as much as he does Lyon and to a lesser extent green.

 

[chris.hinton]

Yeah 5th bowling options are crucial nowadays, especially with the lack of time between tests. Cummins was clearly knackered last test in the second dig but had to keep bowling cause he didn't trust marsh/Murphy as much as he does Lyon and to a lesser extent green.

Marsh bowled better then Green

 

[wpdavid]

The thing is there wasn't a way of getting Root at 4 and Brook at 5 while not giving Bairstow the gloves. Stokes opening would be the only one I could see and that takes away his superpower.

Again, not saying Bairstow playing as a keeper has been anything other than a disaster so far but do understand how they got there.

Likewise. I'd love to say that you could dig out something where I strongly argued against about the decision, but I'd be lying. Previously his keeping had been serviceable, so what we've seen in this series has been a deeply unpleasant shock to all of us. And of course you're right about Stokes too. Weren't there even people suggesting he shouldn't play if he can't bowl? I don't think that was me, anyway. Moeen at 3 is probably the least awful solution, even if we'll be getting out the bunting if he reaches double figures. Ultimately it comes down to Bairstow vs Foakes at number 7, and, sadly, we all know which way that one's going to fall. Ideally YJB would suffer a minor injury between now and 19th July. Not serious of course, I don't wish ill on the guy, but enough to keep him out for a couple of weeks.

 

[chris.hinton]

Bairstow averages 37.04 in tests. its not good enough, He's played 91 tests