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*Official* Third Test (Headingley, Leeds) 6–10 July

Kirkut

Kirkut

International Regular
Gob said:
Journo - Do you think going in to Manchester, momentum is with England
Cummins - No not really
Journo - Why not
Cummins - 2 - 1

Say whatever you like about his captaincy but I'm becoming a big fan of his media front ups
Click to expand...
Cummins is a champ.
 
Spark

Spark

Global Moderator
Gob said:
Journo - Do you think going in to Manchester, momentum is with England
Cummins - No not really
Journo - Why not
Cummins - 2 - 1

Say whatever you like about his captaincy but I'm becoming a big fan of his media front ups
Click to expand...
From an off-field and leadership standpoint he's been stellar. But the tactics side is just... yeah.
 
wpdavid

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
CartyDurham said:
I think 2009 was possibly 1-1 going into the oval ? Then broady had one of his spells which won the game , added to by Jonathan Trott on debut scoring a ton
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That's all true, but I don't think the expectation and excitement going into that test were the same. Maybe because we'd been soundly trounced at Leeds in the previous one.
 
Spark

Spark

Global Moderator
wpdavid said:
That's all true, but I don't think the expectation and excitement going into that test were the same. Maybe because we'd been soundly trounced at Leeds in the previous one.
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That really wasn't a high quality series either. Both these sides would demolish either side from that series.
 
wpdavid

wpdavid

Hall of Fame Member
GIMH said:
Had a good look at the series stats, as I usually do after Tests 3, 4 and 5

Zak is averaging more than Steve Smith
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No wonder Smith's been in such a foul mood all series.

The really astonishing thing about that is that it's happened without Crawley's average being skewed by one big innings alongside a load of single-figure scores.
 
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S

Spofforth

School Boy/Girl Captain
Spark said:
Part timers are not an adequate compensation. People keep suggesting this and it never works. Your part timers in this series would bowl 5 overs a day for 40 the way this series has been going. At least Green looks capable of taking poles when used properly.
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I think you are overlooking the fact that Green is a part time bowler.

You mean like the first innings at Lords where Head got two wickets going for 2.5 rpo while Green got one while going for 6 an over...? :laugh:

If they were less intent on bowling continual 130's chest high filth, they might not have needed a part timer bowling the same.

Spark said:
It's just insane to me that people are willing to drop manifestly the most talented cricketer we've had in ten years in the dustbin simply because he's not Jacques Kallis by the age of 24.
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Jaque Kallis ..? The man who was a true world class batsman, and could make most teams as a front line quick? That's what you call a strawman tbf. Where you supply an argument that you think is easy to refute, and pretend that someone else actually made it.

Green is more likely to end up a decent batsmen who can roll the arm, if he concentrates on batting.

Give me a Symonds any day. Never more than very useful part timer with the ball, but he did average 40 with the bat.

Spark said:
The bolded is particularly just insane to me. We should just accept hamstringing our team because of some vague ideological constraint because if they're not able to get it done on their own without getting tired - which they will - then they're just too bad? This sort of macho nonsense is a real weight on Australian cricket imo.
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..."vague ideological constraint"...? :D

I'm just pointing out that after 23 matches I feel that Green has underwhelmed, and thus in lieu of a genuine all rounder that's good enough with the bat (could make the top 6 as a batsmen alone), we might be better served picking our best six batsmen, a keeper and our four best bowlers. Lots of people get dropped and come back better because of it. If he is in the best six batsmen in Australia that's fair enough, just means we have problems.

Though admittedly, the scars from years of Marsh being undroppable because of his "obvious talent" could be clouding that opinion.


edited to attribute a wicket to Green.
 
Spark

Spark

Global Moderator
Spofforth said:
I think you are overlooking the fact that Green is a part time bowler.

You mean like the first innings at Lords where Head got two wickets going for 2.5 rpo while Green got none going for 6....? :laugh:

If they were less intent on bowling continual 130's chest high filth, they might not have needed a part timer bowling the same.
Click to expand...
Do you actually think that Travis Head is a better bowler than Cameron Green? Put your cards on the table here. Is that a view you're prepared to defend?
 
Spark

Spark

Global Moderator
The way people can be slaves to numbers across tiny sample sizes with bowling gets to me. With batsmen fair enough, statistical output is ultimately the only meaningful metric, but with bowlers the eye test is invariably far more reliable long term.
 
S

Spofforth

School Boy/Girl Captain
Spark said:
Do you actually think that Travis Head is a better bowler than Cameron Green? Put your cards on the table here. Is that a view you're prepared to defend?
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He's not a better "seam up" bowler, for sure. :D It's an apples to oranges comparison anyway, which depends on conditions and stage of match, but Green doesn't appear anything that special either. But now you're just "moving the goalposts". The point is that he got the same mount of wickets far more economically in the very match you used as an example.

If your making batting concessions to beef up the fast bowling, it will be rare that I will agree with that (unless it's on a known batting superhighway or something). These fellas really need to rethink tactics, learn what a good bouncer actually is and how to use it.

I think Smith, Head and Marnus could all be decent if they spent some time on it. As long as it doesn't take away from their batting.
 
Zinzan

Zinzan

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Well done England, the two Ws in particular!

Just 1 test away from the dream prospect of a 2-2 score-line going into the 5th at the Oval.
 
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