-
Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!
If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
*Official* New Zealand vs India Tests & ODIs
- Thread starter lord_of_darkness
- Start date
aussie_beater
State Vice-Captain
Don't try to hedge your faulty statements by changing the context later. The initial post by "warrioryohannan" on which you commented with that ill-informed statement was talking about ODIs and how Ganguly should sit out the rest of the matches in NZ as he is looking totally out of sorts now.So its natural to assume that you were talking about ODIs and not tests.Be clear about what you say when making such sweeping statements.Rik said:
Ganguly averaged 58 in tests in the last series he played in England in 2002 with 1 hundred and 3 fifties.So its not just that one series in 1996.Also he averaged 53 in the 5 tests played in WI just before the series with Eng.
Also look at the stats I gave you on his overall test match performance in the other countries.It isn't that bad except in Aus.In NZ his average has gone down due to the horrendous performance in the current series which has been the case with all other Indian batsman as well.He was averaging 55 before this series, in tests in NZ.
My pleasure.... because it feels quite good to slap someone shut with good hard facts....Also as for all your ODI stats...what a waste of time![/B]
Rik
Cricketer Of The Year
Funny Funny Funny, slap someone shut? I wasn't even talking about ODIs so how could you slap my mouth shut?aussie_beater said:Don't try to hedge your faulty statements by changing the context later. The initial post by "warrioryohannan" on which you commented with that ill-informed statement was talking about ODIs and how Ganguly should sit out the rest of the matches in NZ as he is looking totally out of sorts now.So its natural to assume that you were talking about ODIs and not tests.Be clear about what you say when making such sweeping statements.
Ganguly averaged 58 in tests in the last series he played in England in 2002 with 1 hundred and 3 fifties.So its not just that one series in 1996.Also he averaged 53 in the 5 tests played in WI just before the series with Eng.
Also look at the stats I gave you on his overall test match performance in the other countries.It isn't that bad except in Aus.In NZ his average has gone down due to the horrendous performance in the current series which has been the case with all other Indian batsman as well.He was averaging 55 before this series, in tests in NZ.
My pleasure.... because it feels quite good to slap someone shut with good hard facts....
As for me commenting how he should sit out the series...that was WarriorYohannan, not me. Take a look:
Please don't try and pin something I haven't done on to me.
Also Ganguly's average has gone down from 50 odd to just over 40. That's a drop in average almost as bad as Brett Lee's rise from 16 to 29...
Are you trying to tell me that's good?
Last edited:
aussie_beater
State Vice-Captain
Yes you were talking about ODIs.If not you should have been more clearer.... to change context now is no good.Rik said:
I didn't say that you made the statement about Ganguly to sit out the series.Look at what I wrote -
Read the statement carefully.... "the initial post by "warrior..", on which you commented with that ill-informed statement, was talking about ODIs....."
So what "was talking" ? You or the "initial post by warrioryohanan" ?
I thought the English knew how to read English
Rik
Cricketer Of The Year
No I started talking about the Tests so I'm not changing the context.aussie_beater said:Yes you were talking about ODIs.If not you should have been more clearer.... to change context now is no good.
I didn't say that you made the statement about Ganguly to sit out the series.Look at what I wrote -
Read the statement carefully.... "the initial post by "warrior..", on which you commented with that ill-informed statement, was talking about ODIs....."
So what "was talking" ? You or the "initial post by warrioryohanan" ?
I thought the English knew how to read English
Look at what you wrote again. "the initial post by "warrior..", on which you commented with that ill-informed statement, was talking about ODIs....." On which you commented with that ill-informed statement? What you just said basically said I talked about dropping him too, which I didn't.
I know how to read English, it just has to be made clear for any person who reads English to understand. Unless it's clear it could be written in any language in the world and still make no sense...
So..??? For the last 2 tours, he hasn't had much success in one dayers, but he scored well against the Windies both home and away, and had one century in the ICC trophy. Moreover his average in all countries except NZ(and that too because of the current tour) is very good. Tell me...how many international players have that kind of average and aggregate after playing over 200 internationals? Very few, you will find. A_B's comments were very relevant, not odd. You were slagging off Ganguly as a one day player after one moderate and one horrible tour and he just proved that he isn't half as bad as you were making him out to be.Rik said:
aussie_beater
State Vice-Captain
And is everybody supposed to be a psychic to read your mind and know the context ? The context was in the discussion that was going on which was about ODIs, and you gave your views in that discussion.So what context is it supposed to be in ?Rik said:
That's the problem....you don't know how to read compund sentences....plain and simple.
"the initial post by warrior, on which you commented with that ill-informed statement, was talking about ODIs"
That's what I said...and in that you are accused of making an ill-informed statement(the statement about Ganguly being no good overseas) which was a comment on the initial post by warrior which was talking about Ganguly being dropped.That's how the sentence was made into a compund statement.
Go ask your English grammar teacher...he/she will tell you what's what...Capisch ?
As to whether you are insane or not, Marc is probably in a better position to judge as you're both in England while I am sitting across the Atlantic.Rik said:
I know that I am not insane. In the first place you responded to warrior's post on Ganguly's performance in one dayers. So, it was natural for anyone to assume that you were also talking about the same thing. Secondly when I argued about it, you responded saying that you were talking about tests, but then put a question mark on his one day performances by saying that he hasn't done much on his last tours of Eng and NZ. Go back and check your own post and see for yourself. I was responding to that. Take it easy now, pal, don't go over the edge like that.
Rik
Cricketer Of The Year
aussie_beater said:And is everybody supposed to be a psychic to read your mind and know the context ? The context was in the discussion that was going on which was about ODIs, and you gave your views in that discussion.So what context is it supposed to be in ?
That's the problem....you don't know how to read compund sentences....plain and simple.
"the initial post by warrior, on which you commented with that ill-informed statement, was talking about ODIs"
That's what I said...and in that you are accused of making an ill-informed statement(the statement about Ganguly being no good overseas) which was a comment on the initial post by warrior which was talking about Ganguly being dropped.That's how the sentence was made into a compund statement.
Go ask your English grammar teacher...he/she will tell you what's what...Capisch ?
My English teacher was very happy with my results as I got a B+ anyway I'm out of school now and have been for 3 years. Ok fair enough now I understand what you mean. But his average has dropped a lot in the last few years and he's still batting too high up the order in my opinion. Anyway it doesn't take a genius to understand that if I'm talking about Ganguly being crap then I'm talking about his Test Record, as his ODI one has no problems...
Rik
Cricketer Of The Year
Bloody hell, are you totally clueless? I was talking about Tests then included his ODI stats to show that he's gone a bit downhill lately. I've checked my own post and that's what I said...:rolleyes:anilramavarma said:As to whether you are insane or not, Marc is probably in a better position to judge as you're both in England while I am sitting across the Atlantic.
I know that I am not insane. In the first place you responded to warrior's post on Ganguly's performance in one dayers. So, it was natural for anyone to assume that you were also talking about the same thing. Secondly when I argued about it, you responded saying that you were talking about tests, but then put a question mark on his one day performances by saying that he hasn't done much on his last tours of Eng and NZ. Go back and check your own post and see for yourself. I was responding to that. Take it easy now, pal, don't go over the edge like that.
Are you still trying to tell me that Ganguly is the same player he was a few years ago? Well sorry but he's not.
Wait a minute...here is what has happenedRik said:
I know I am repeating myself, but some people just don't seem to get it)First you reply to warrior's post on Gang's performance in ODIs and then when A_B and I argued with you, you backtracked and said you were talking about tests. Maybe you were, but it was upto you to make that clear in the first place.
Secondly my statement acknowledging that he has looked clueless in tests for extended periods but that this hasn't translated to one dayers. It was a simple statement and true at that(supported by hard stats which A_B had provided earlier which is why I didn't repeat them). With me so far? Your response was to assert again that you were talking about tests and then put a questionmark on his one day performances based on 2 tours(quite unnecessary and irrelevant if you were talking exclusively about tests in the first place plus test form and one day form are unconnected in most cases especially when you consider Gang's career). I was reacting to that second part of that post(which I thought I made clear).
Third scene: You come back with a post questioning my sanity, your own sanity and everyone else's. My response was to assert that atleast I was not insane and very gently(so as not to upset your scattered sensibilities) give you a synopsis of what had transpired thus far.
Now as to the latest episode, let me answer you in 2 steps:
As far as tests are concerned, after his initial years where he was averaging 50, he had been found wanting again and again on away pitches with pace, bounce and movement against good fast bowlers(it is not a recent phenomenon). The recent West Indian and England tour saw him arrest that slide and play well acknowleding his limitations. The home series against the West Indies saw him at the receiving end of 3-4 horrible umpiring decisions and his low average there shouldn't really count against him. Now, as to the NZ tour, he has been an unqualified failure so far and he has hit a really bad patch once again. It's a bit too early to write him off in tests, however.
In one dayers, he has played well in the West Indies, in the finals of the Natwest, in the ICC trophy and the home series against the Windies while he hasn't for most of the Natwest and the NZ series. Bit up and down for him recently, but again far too early and even more premature than tests to write him off.
As to whether he is the same player he was a few years back, I still think so. He is still as up and down in tests as he was and he looks more suspect in one dayers than he once was, he is still capable of explosive, match winning innings and increasing his average, but that is just my opinion, of course.
You should have gathered by now that I am not completely clueless(oh! please say you did, I don't want to explain all that again). My suggestion is that maybe you should have more of a clue on what you are talking about.
aussie_beater
State Vice-Captain
ok, now that you saw where i was coming from.... let's look at Ganguly's test record.Rik said:
As I posted earlier, his test record away from home is not that bad either(not as good as his ODI averages ofcourse) except in Australia and NZ.
In NZ he had a very good average(55) till this current series where every single Indian batsman has struggled and so it cannot be held only against him.I would rather put all the Indian batsman under the guillotine for their performance in NZ this time and not pick out one player for special treatment.
In Australia he has played only one series(3 matches) where he failed and that was a good three years ago.He has done quite well in the last two series abroad that were played against England and WI averaging 54 and 58 in them.
His career average in WI is 40(which is quite good), while in SA it is about 33(which is not that bad).
So going by all that stats, I would say that your statement quoted below is a bit out of touch with reality even for his performance in tests.Yes his technique has serious flaws in it when it comes to playing in bouncy tracks with movement, but he has coped quite well lately(going by his performance in WI and Eng). This series in NZ has been bad for all the Indian batsman.
aussie_beater
State Vice-Captain
And yes I agree that he should be letting Laxman come before him in tests.Rik said:
aussie_beater
State Vice-Captain
It sure takes a genius to make a clear pointRik said:
aussie_beater
State Vice-Captain
Don't lose your bearings over that.... it was meant to be a jokeRik said:
