*Official* New Zealand vs India Tests & ODIs

[aussie_beater]

Originally posted by Gotchya
If you dont undermine the importance of a strong bowling attack then I agree with you. In other words, It has been alway's the batting that has promised anything for India playing away from home. The bowling has been always seconf fidle.

Ofcourse the importance of a strong bowling attack is paramount and there can be no two opinions about that.What I was stressing is that if we claim that Indian batting lineup is what its strength is, then that has gotta be proven on the field.

 

[masterblaster]

People really should sit up, and take notice of Zaheer Khan, he really is developing into a fine bowler, and cmon everyone we know he wont average 36 his whole career.

The average, like most bowlers does go down, and Zaheer is only 24/25 years of age, he still has plenty of time, and is getting better physically, mentally and ofcourse is improving his bowling.

Meanwhile the two gooses in Nehra and Agarkar are useless.

 

[Choora]

Zaheer khan was simply awesome, his average for which he has been critised alot has dropped to 35 now, and it will get better with time.

Indians have traditionally been slow starters, their battinmg was the main reason as to why they lost the match shamelessly.I think Laxman should be dropped and Kaif shouls be given a chance. Also its time 2 seriouly think about dropping Sehwag down the order, maybe Das should be tried (Gautham would have been the best choice).I think India will perform better in the second test, particularly their batsmen will show more application.

 

[masterblaster]

i dont think so choora, India really have a long way to go, along with Tendulkar and Dravid, we need someone like Sunny Gavaskar or Navjot Sidhu who were really good overseas players.

And ofcourse we need a Kapil Dev. Agarkar is not even 1% of Kapil Dev and Nehra is the most pitiful example of a bowler I have seen, I rather have Tony and Martin Suji and Jimmy Kamande playing for India!

 

[Choora]

In test cricket the role of openers are extremely important.Unfortunately India has 2 players opening for the test team that aren't regular openers.Sehwag is a middle order batsman and should bat down the order in Onedayers.Bangar though is a regular opener in the domestic matches (for railways) but he's more of an allrounder than a specialists batsman.I think we should have 2 specialists openers in the team.
The middle order is still good in my opinion, Dravid and Sachin are all whether players, Ganguly is decent, but i think its time 2 give a chance to Kaif who i think should replace Laxman.
Ajit should never be in the test side, i feel Ganguly favors him excessively.Ajit is a oneday player, and has been and will always be a failure at test level.

 

[anzac]

Originally posted by Gotchya
anzac...I was referring to your beloved terrace elements in that post...I rate NZ dont worry

all is forgiven my friend - I wasn't sure if I had caught your drift correctly or not and thought it better to be safe than sorry so to speak

 

[anzac]

Anzac...you get my award for biggest, un-quoted post...here...have a Rodent :rodent: [/quote]



thanx mate.........I hadn't intended it to be so long - been having trouble posting this week - storms playing havoc at this time of year - instead of being little bits & pieces it sort of grew somewhat!!!!!

 

[anzac]

I must say it is nice to see some intelligent posts from our Indian supporters without the terrace element detracting from the realities.......

Zaheer was the best of the Indian bowlers & got the rewards for his efforts with his 5 wicket bag. However he still has a long way to go as an International bowler until he can do to a batting lineup what Bond did to India b4 lunch on Day 3. At this stage he is more of a foil / partner, as opposed to being the strike seamer India need.

I agree that AA seems to be the Captain's Pet.....

 

[Gotchya]

Originally posted by anzac
Anzac...you get my award for biggest, un-quoted post...here...have a Rodent :rodent:

thanx mate.........I hadn't intended it to be so long - been having trouble posting this week - storms playing havoc at this time of year - instead of being little bits & pieces it sort of grew somewhat!!!!!

[/quote]

You have a great ability there mate. Posting big I cant do it until and unless its really really annoying me or somethings to clear up, but you come up with looong posts and manage to keep it integrated.

That was nice wasn't it ? :baddevil:

 

[Neil Pickup]

Originally posted by Choora
Sehwag is a middle order batsman and should bat down the order in Onedayers.

I would totally disagree with this. For any nation, an opener who can take the opposition apart is becoming more and more essential in ODIs. Yes he will fail more than his fair share of times, but he will win games.

Bangar though is a regular opener in the domestic matches (for railways) but he's more of an allrounder than a specialists batsman.

He's done well enough so far opening for me, chopping and changing won't help anyone.

I think we should have 2 specialists openers in the team.

Hypothetically looking at Das & Gambhir..
Das
Gambhir
Dravid
Tendulkar
Ganguly
Sehwag
Kaif
Bangar
Harbhajan
Zaheer
Yohannan (hey, he can't do worse than Nehra!)

That selection really does lack bowling strength.

 

[marc71178]

And a keeper.

 

[Rik]

Originally posted by Choora Zaheer Khan was simply awesome, his average for which he has been critised alot has dropped to 35 now, and it will get better with time.

No disrespect but it was a bowler friendly pitch and even though he only bowled in one innings he was bowling against a weaker Batting Lineup than the Indian one, and took 5-53...Bond took 3-66 and 4-33 but also ripped the top players out in the Indian 2nd innings. Bond is bowling against a more talented lineup and wins the match for his team basically. Therefor I'd say Bond was more impressive, Oram got 5 Wickets cheaper than Zaheer (against that Batting Lineup) for 59...and Tuffey got 5-60 in total. Now that I would call awesome...5-53 in a loosing cause is good but not Awesome. Sorry, but Basically the NZ attack did better, it's as simple as that. Zaheer was good, but so were the conditions for bowling. I still need more proof.

Zaheer averages 35...now compare that to Bond's current average of 22...that's 4 runs per Wicket cheaper than his (Bond's) FC Average...

[Edited on 15/12/2002 by Rik]

 

[Tim]

Bond's delivery to Dravid was the best delivery of the match. Unplayable in-swinging yorker.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Originally posted by marc71178
And a keeper.

Yes. That's why Bangar opens.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

I believe Das should be in the side though because he is a good opening batsman. Just look at his record, I think it's rather impressive. I don't think Gambhir should be in there though.

 

[Choora]

Originally posted by Neil Pickup

Originally posted by Choora
Sehwag is a middle order batsman and should bat down the order in Onedayers.

I would totally disagree with this. For any nation, an opener who can take the opposition apart is becoming more and more essential in ODIs. Yes he will fail more than his fair share of times, but he will win games.

My mistake, actually i had test matches in mind and mistakenly wrote Onedayers.Though my first choice for Onedayer opener is still Ganguly and Sachin

.[/quote]
He's done well enough so far opening for me, chopping and changing won't help anyone..[/quote]

Yes he has done well but he's not a long term solution .Bangar should come down the order in place of Ajit, when proper openers are available.




[/quote]
Hypothetically looking at Das & Gambhir..
Das
Gambhir
Dravid
Tendulkar
Ganguly
Sehwag
Kaif
Bangar
Harbhajan
Zaheer
Yohannan (hey, he can't do worse than Nehra!)

That selection really does lack bowling strength. [/quote]

Remove Sehwag from the playing 11 and replace him by a keeper in Patel.

 

[Rik]

Get rid of Sehwag? That would never happen! This guy is very talented, and with time will mature and become more consistant! But opening in Tests I thought was a mistake in the making...he plays too many shots too early, that's why he is better suited down the order when the ball is swinging less.

 

[Choora]

No disrespect but it was a bowler friendly pitch and even though he only bowled in one innings he was bowling against a weaker Batting Lineup than the Indian one, and took 5-53...Bond took 3-66 and 4-33 but also ripped the top players out in the Indian 2nd innings. Bond is bowling against a more talented lineup and wins the match for his team basically. Therefor I'd say Bond was more impressive, Oram got 5 Wickets cheaper than Zaheer (against that Batting Lineup) for 59...and Tuffey got 5-60 in total. Now that I would call awesome...5-53 in a loosing cause is good but not Awesome. Sorry, but Basically the NZ attack did better, it's as simple as that. Zaheer was good, but so were the conditions for bowling. I still need more proof.

Zaheer averages 35...now compare that to Bond's current average of 22...that's 4 runs per Wicket cheaper than his (Bond's) FC Average...

[Edited on 15/12/2002 by Rik] [/quote]

I wonder what made him 2 compare the 2 bowlers???

Bond is a ripper, a genuine speedster, better compare him 2 Lee or Akhter.

AS for the 2 batting lineup.Keep in mind that NZ was playing on their own back yard.On such surface, they had a better batting lineup than India's(particulary when India has 2 makeshift openers).Getting the wickets of Indian batsmen was much more easy than getting that of Kiwi batters on their own turf.Indian batters were totally out of blues in the 1st match, they didn't even knew where the offstump were, some ended giving the slip fielders practice catches.
If India lost the match then Khan cannot be held responsible for it, if a team gets out to a score of 120 then there is nothing a bowler can do about it.Khan had additional problem of bowling with Ajit/Nehra, who were useless and gave him no support!

 

[Rik]

Well I suppose that Bond is a worse bowler but is faster so he takes more wickets much cheaper...while poor Zaheer is a great bowler who unfortunatly was not fast enough here?

Come on! :rolleyes:

 

[Rik]

Originally posted by Rik
I compared them as they played in the same match, what use would it be comparing Bond to Lee and Shoiab when they weren't even playing in the same match?

Well I suppose that Bond is a worse bowler but is faster so he takes more wickets much cheaper...while poor Zaheer is a great bowler who unfortunatly was not fast enough here?

Come on! :rolleyes: