Neil Pickup
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Sorry.. just can't help myself 
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*Official* New Zealand vs India Tests & ODIs
- Thread starter lord_of_darkness
- Start date
Neil Pickup
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Definitely the Best 
R_Powell_fan
U19 Captain
Guys look at the very very bright side...
No seriousely...Zaheer preformed very creditably considering the fact that he is returning from injury, I haven't seen this test, can anyone commenton how good his actually was to take 5/54 (was it) ?
No seriousely...Zaheer preformed very creditably considering the fact that he is returning from injury, I haven't seen this test, can anyone commenton how good his actually was to take 5/54 (was it) ?
R_Powell_fan
U19 Captain
Originally posted by marc
Choora: Zaheer is good, no question 'bout it, but please please don't go on saying such remarks which are unworthy of your respectful IQ level such as saying he is the best Left armer in test cricket history... the young man has just started his career, and IMO Wasim and Vaas at least at the moment are better... so don't get me wrong I'm not insulting you or trying to provoke you or even disrespecting you.
Stop!!!! you causing another lethal fit of laughter....
Choora: Zaheer is good, no question 'bout it, but please please don't go on saying such remarks which are unworthy of your respectful IQ level such as saying he is the best Left armer in test cricket history... the young man has just started his career, and IMO Wasim and Vaas at least at the moment are better... so don't get me wrong I'm not insulting you or trying to provoke you or even disrespecting you.
aussie_beater
State Vice-Captain
I have maintained this view for a long time, that all of India's woes abroad are because of India's batting lineup.We criticize the Indian bowling quite often, but my view is that we can think about bowling, only after the batting lineup consistently posts good scores in both innings of a test match abroad, which has been a rarity over all these years.
If India cannot bat out the opposition from a test match, then all these claims of the best batting lineup and such is pure baloney.period. And its been proven time and time again.No reason to blame the bowlers....they are not the best and don't have any pretensions of being so either, which cannot be said about the so called "great" batting lineup.
!!
[Edited on 14/12/2002 by aussie_beater]
If India cannot bat out the opposition from a test match, then all these claims of the best batting lineup and such is pure baloney.period. And its been proven time and time again.No reason to blame the bowlers....they are not the best and don't have any pretensions of being so either, which cannot be said about the so called "great" batting lineup.
!![Edited on 14/12/2002 by aussie_beater]
Gotchya
State Vice-Captain
If you dont undermine the importance of a strong bowling attack then I agree with you. In other words, It has been alway's the batting that has promised anything for India playing away from home. The bowling has been always seconf fidle.Originally posted by aussie_beater
I have maintained this view for a long time, that all of India's woes abroad are because of India's batting lineup.We criticize the Indian bowling quite often, but my view is that we can think about bowling, only after the batting lineup consistently posts good scores in both innings of a test match abroad, which has been a rarity over all these years.
If India cannot bat out the opposition from a test match, then all these claims of the best batting lineup and such is pure baloney.period. And its been proven time and time again.No reason to blame the bowlers....they are not the best and don't have any pretensions of being so either, which cannot be said about the so called "great" batting lineup.
[Edited on 14/12/2002 by aussie_beater]
V Reddy
International Debutant
The batting only failed in this match. It scored over 300 in ENG except in 1 st innings of 1st test match. It fared well in SAF also but for the bowling conceded over 450. It did well in WI also but the bowling did it again. The last time they were in NZ , they fared badly in only 1 innings scoring around 210 , in the rest they scored above 350. So they really failed in only one test match.AUS batting fared badly in India and SRL.Still isn't their batting called the best.
aww come on guys - we've put up with enough from the terrace element of so called Indian fans, no offence intended to the genuine supporters (you know who you are guys), and we've been giving it to England for their performances in OZ, so I don't see why India or anyone else should be exempt. So long as we remain objective we are entitled to roundly criticise anyone who can transpire to loose a Test in 3 days!!!!
so let's call it as it is - a pathetic display by India resulting in an under strength & under prepared Black Caps side winning inside 3 days!!!!!!
A great result for NZ to gain their 52nd test victory on their 300th test match!!!!8D All the more remarkable when you consider how little cricket the Kiwis have had over the past 12 months in comparison to India.....
I agree with the commentary I watched when they said that in order to gain International acceptance & respect a team must start to win series away from Home - India has not done so for 17 years!!!! It's not good enough to win the odd Test match or draw a series Away from Home, & until you do so there will always be questions regarding the merit of your team & player performances with both bat & ball. What good are great averages & runs scoring if you can not produce it Away to win a series??????
The Indian team may have a great Home series record & be highly rated at the short game, but they appear to be too loose with their shot making for the longer game Away from Home.
Sehwag is too loose to be a Test opener (Gilchrist doesn't open in Tests for OZ), and he should drop down the order to replace Laxman, with Das coming in to open. Ganguly had a forgetable performance not only with the bat but also regarding his field settings & use of his bowlers.
Of the much vaunted batting lineup only the real class acts in Dravid & Tendulkar shone thru' and are worth their reputations - the rest flatter to pretend!!!!AA should be dropped as he was the next least impressive of a poor team performance, & failed to do anything with the ball. Zaheer showed that he is the only seam bowler of any note in the team and was rewarded accordingly for his efforts.
While winning the toss was important, I do not think that the pitch can be blamed for the Indian performance. Sure there was still some movement on Day 3, but Dravid; Richardson; Astle & Tendulkar all showed that runs could be scored with the proper application from the batsmen. The fact that India posted a lower score in their 2nd dig on what was the best batting conditions of the match so far shows the pitch was not to blame!!!! :P:P
The Kiwi selectors & brains trust have exploited the Indian weakness playing forward, and their aversion to genuine pace & bounce. Hence the selection of Bond, Tuffey & Oram - the latter being 2 big, strong & tall bowlers able to get bounce & run into the Wellington wind.
It is a testiment that this tactic worked so well that Vettori did not get a bowl - and he is no slouch at his trade.
That the NZ batsmen did not score over 250 is more a testiment to their lack of preparation, rather than any indication of good Indian bowling or the pitch conditions.
It is hard to be critical of any team that wins inside 3 days but I will try to be objective. This was not a great performance by NZ, nor were there any great individual performances (although there were keys spells in the match dominated by the Kiwis), and there is still a lot of improvement to be made. If the Kiwis sit back on this result they will be beaten in the next outing, as I can not see India being so inept in 2 consecutive Tests - they will still be vulnerable for all the same reasons, but not so inept!!!! Rather this was a team effort - a champion team v team of champions.
The NZ fielding effort was greatly improved in the 2nd Indian innings with some great catches being taken. However there were opportunities to both Vettori & McMillan that should have been taken.
The batsmen all looked out of touch and in need of time out in the middle. The main point of note is that the experiment of Styris & Oram as 2 all rounders following each other did not work & gave the Indian bowlers some encouragement. They are too inexperienced at this form of the game and I would look to change this weakness in the lineup. Whilst Vettori did not get a chance with the ball, his 21 in the tail was invaluable to NZ posting a reasonable lead.
The bowlers did what was required of them without being exceptional. Bond's spell b4 lunch on the 3rd Day was the turning point. Tuffey proved his worth to the Kiwis, although he lost his way into the wind in his first spell yesterday, but came back well with the wind after lunch to take 3/18. Oram was a revelation with his control of his line & length into the wind, and must be considered as a genuine bowling option for further selection. Styris performed well in the 1st innings, but was guilty of dropping too short too often after lunch yesterday, as were the rest of the bowlers.
Had the Kiwis been better prepared with a few more games under their belt the Indians would have been looking at an innings defeat & their lowest score v NZ would have been greatly threatened!!!!
If I was to make any change to the NZ side I would consider strengthening the batting lineup by replacing one of the all rounders. I would probably bring in Sinclair for Styris & keep Oram for his bounce, (unless Styris has a good record at Hamilton for ND). Other alternatives would be O'Connor (genuine swing at good pace), Franklin (tall left arm & gets bounce), or even Adams if they wanted to persist with 2 all rounders. As all of the above were unavailable thru' injury (apart from Sinclair) a lot will depend on their recovery. Regardless it would be exceedingly difficult to replace any bowler who has just taken 5 wickets or more in a match that was won in 3 Days!!!! 8D
so let's call it as it is - a pathetic display by India resulting in an under strength & under prepared Black Caps side winning inside 3 days!!!!!!
A great result for NZ to gain their 52nd test victory on their 300th test match!!!!8D All the more remarkable when you consider how little cricket the Kiwis have had over the past 12 months in comparison to India.....
I agree with the commentary I watched when they said that in order to gain International acceptance & respect a team must start to win series away from Home - India has not done so for 17 years!!!!
It's not good enough to win the odd Test match or draw a series Away from Home, & until you do so there will always be questions regarding the merit of your team & player performances with both bat & ball. What good are great averages & runs scoring if you can not produce it Away to win a series??????The Indian team may have a great Home series record & be highly rated at the short game, but they appear to be too loose with their shot making for the longer game Away from Home.
Sehwag is too loose to be a Test opener (Gilchrist doesn't open in Tests for OZ), and he should drop down the order to replace Laxman, with Das coming in to open. Ganguly had a forgetable performance not only with the bat but also regarding his field settings & use of his bowlers.
Of the much vaunted batting lineup only the real class acts in Dravid & Tendulkar shone thru' and are worth their reputations - the rest flatter to pretend!!!!AA should be dropped as he was the next least impressive of a poor team performance, & failed to do anything with the ball. Zaheer showed that he is the only seam bowler of any note in the team and was rewarded accordingly for his efforts.
While winning the toss was important, I do not think that the pitch can be blamed for the Indian performance. Sure there was still some movement on Day 3, but Dravid; Richardson; Astle & Tendulkar all showed that runs could be scored with the proper application from the batsmen. The fact that India posted a lower score in their 2nd dig on what was the best batting conditions of the match so far shows the pitch was not to blame!!!! :P:P
The Kiwi selectors & brains trust have exploited the Indian weakness playing forward, and their aversion to genuine pace & bounce. Hence the selection of Bond, Tuffey & Oram - the latter being 2 big, strong & tall bowlers able to get bounce & run into the Wellington wind.
It is a testiment that this tactic worked so well that Vettori did not get a bowl - and he is no slouch at his trade.
That the NZ batsmen did not score over 250 is more a testiment to their lack of preparation, rather than any indication of good Indian bowling or the pitch conditions.
It is hard to be critical of any team that wins inside 3 days but I will try to be objective. This was not a great performance by NZ, nor were there any great individual performances (although there were keys spells in the match dominated by the Kiwis), and there is still a lot of improvement to be made. If the Kiwis sit back on this result they will be beaten in the next outing, as I can not see India being so inept in 2 consecutive Tests - they will still be vulnerable for all the same reasons, but not so inept!!!! Rather this was a team effort - a champion team v team of champions.
The NZ fielding effort was greatly improved in the 2nd Indian innings with some great catches being taken. However there were opportunities to both Vettori & McMillan that should have been taken.
The batsmen all looked out of touch and in need of time out in the middle. The main point of note is that the experiment of Styris & Oram as 2 all rounders following each other did not work & gave the Indian bowlers some encouragement. They are too inexperienced at this form of the game and I would look to change this weakness in the lineup. Whilst Vettori did not get a chance with the ball, his 21 in the tail was invaluable to NZ posting a reasonable lead.
The bowlers did what was required of them without being exceptional. Bond's spell b4 lunch on the 3rd Day was the turning point. Tuffey proved his worth to the Kiwis, although he lost his way into the wind in his first spell yesterday, but came back well with the wind after lunch to take 3/18. Oram was a revelation with his control of his line & length into the wind, and must be considered as a genuine bowling option for further selection. Styris performed well in the 1st innings, but was guilty of dropping too short too often after lunch yesterday, as were the rest of the bowlers.
Had the Kiwis been better prepared with a few more games under their belt the Indians would have been looking at an innings defeat & their lowest score v NZ would have been greatly threatened!!!!
If I was to make any change to the NZ side I would consider strengthening the batting lineup by replacing one of the all rounders. I would probably bring in Sinclair for Styris & keep Oram for his bounce, (unless Styris has a good record at Hamilton for ND). Other alternatives would be O'Connor (genuine swing at good pace), Franklin (tall left arm & gets bounce), or even Adams if they wanted to persist with 2 all rounders. As all of the above were unavailable thru' injury (apart from Sinclair) a lot will depend on their recovery. Regardless it would be exceedingly difficult to replace any bowler who has just taken 5 wickets or more in a match that was won in 3 Days!!!! 8D
Rik
Cricketer Of The Year
Vettori rarely seems to get Wickets on the grassy pitches in NZ, and lately, has hardly been bowled on those said Pitches...that is why his Average isn't very impressive. But he is a very good bowler, no doubt. Oram was impressive on Debut though and Tuffey is a "Home Bowler" who performs best in the NZ conditions.
Anzac...you get my award for biggest, un-quoted post...here...have a Rodent :rodent:
Anzac...you get my award for biggest, un-quoted post...here...have a Rodent :rodent:
Originally posted by Gotchya
Well....! amazing....thankyou NZ for shattering the myths. Two and a half days, pretty dismal display against a side that isn't worth mentioning.......
I would hardly say that NZ are a side that isn't worth mentioning......after all they are currently 3rd on the Test rankings!!!!
In recent years during their injury crisis they have secured Away victories in England & WI, and have run the Aussies close. The Aussies are also the last team to win in NZ & dominate the series.
In the ODI they have also won the ICC tourney in Kenya, and then eliminated the Aussies in last years Tri-Series.
Overall their efforts over the past couple of seasons have been as good as any, and better than most - not a bad effort for an understrength team not worth mentioning.......:P
aussie_beater
State Vice-Captain
That's a brave statement, my friend. Look at the past, and I am sure you will find all the evidence is to the contrary.
If you just look at very recent performances starting with the SA tour last year till this test in NZ, you will find that India has scored 350+ on 9 occasions and less then that on 13 occasions outside the sub-continent. That's a 60 % failure rate to achieve a not-so-great score either(350 is a bare minimum cosidering India's bowling strengths).That does not look too well on the "best" batting lineup in the world.
And this period has been one of the better ones with India winning 2 matches out of those 13 matches and losing 6.Throughout the nineties before India won that match in Zimbabwe in 2001, India had not won a single test outside of the sub-continent since 1986.
I don't see how we can crow about anything or say a thing like, this match has been a one off or such.
[Edited on 15/12/2002 by aussie_beater]