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**Official** New Zealand v Australia
- Thread starter 12th Man
- Start date
well done & congrads AUS - a very professional job & totally outclassed NZL in every department...........
I've stated on another thread that IMO NZL were as good in the field as AUS - I'd have to revise that on today's evidence..............with the likes of Clarke, Hussey & Symonds in this lineup they have taken it to another level of consistency inside the ring...............
and I can't think of another team that hits the stumps so often with direct throws.........
I've stated on another thread that IMO NZL were as good in the field as AUS - I'd have to revise that on today's evidence..............with the likes of Clarke, Hussey & Symonds in this lineup they have taken it to another level of consistency inside the ring...............
and I can't think of another team that hits the stumps so often with direct throws.........
I hope Papps is ok, but on today's effort I feel justified in my concerns over his front foot press v good short & pace bowling................
I didn't see the Lee 'beamer' as I'd given it away when H Marshall departed, but that aside IMO he bowled very well today...............
if it was nothing more than a waist high full toss than IMO that's nothing different to what Cairns dished up - except for the obvious difference in pace of delivery..........
I didn't see the Lee 'beamer' as I'd given it away when H Marshall departed, but that aside IMO he bowled very well today...............
if it was nothing more than a waist high full toss than IMO that's nothing different to what Cairns dished up - except for the obvious difference in pace of delivery..........
AUS have definate batting depth with Hussey at #7 and they have shown that they reliably able to step up to the mark more often than not - Clarke has been in brilliant form from the VB series, and now Hussey shines................
the bowling attack has been able to adapt well enough to the changed pitches and maintain good lines & lengths regardless of who is selected - even when Symonds bowls either off spin or seam up medium pace!!!!!
the bowling attack has been able to adapt well enough to the changed pitches and maintain good lines & lengths regardless of who is selected - even when Symonds bowls either off spin or seam up medium pace!!!!!
NZL have massive problems with lack of form & confidence and it will be interesting to see what the selectors look to do to arrest the rot - if they do nothing & retain the same players then the Test series is already a whitewash IMO..............
IMO there are problems not only with the players (batsmen & bowlers), but also regarding the tactics...........afaic we are asking too much of a depleted bowling attack to try to contain the AUS batsmen for the batting lineup to chase a reasonable total - regardless of pitch type (as AUS proved today on our slowest intnl pitch)..............therefore IMO we should look to bat 1st & post a total that we can use our fielding & slow bowlers to build pressure by increasing the RRR in the middle overs which is our bowling strength...........however the batting lineup is likewise not contributing with the top order trying to survive & retain wickets for the middle & lower order 'hitters' to come in & knock off the boundaries - all well & good if you are not needing to score at more than 7 RPO & your 'hitters' do their job - which they aren't..........
IMO there are problems not only with the players (batsmen & bowlers), but also regarding the tactics...........afaic we are asking too much of a depleted bowling attack to try to contain the AUS batsmen for the batting lineup to chase a reasonable total - regardless of pitch type (as AUS proved today on our slowest intnl pitch)..............therefore IMO we should look to bat 1st & post a total that we can use our fielding & slow bowlers to build pressure by increasing the RRR in the middle overs which is our bowling strength...........however the batting lineup is likewise not contributing with the top order trying to survive & retain wickets for the middle & lower order 'hitters' to come in & knock off the boundaries - all well & good if you are not needing to score at more than 7 RPO & your 'hitters' do their job - which they aren't..........
Tuffey MUST go - Wilson to replace & be used as a 'strike' bowler as in the Invitational games - not as a 3rd seamer in a containing role with the 'keeper up to the stumps.........
Mills has picked up wickets but still bleeds runs and his last 2 overs at 'the death' undid the good work by Vettori, Astle & McMillan.................likewise he's not getting a lot of shape on the ball - certainly the AUS bowlers are able to get more swing IMO.........
Hamilton or Aldridge or both should be looked at....................nothing ventured nothing gained........
The openers are showing their lack of exposure to genuine pace bowling - and the fact that both are 'converted' to the opening role...........it may well be that we need a genuine opener in ODIs when facing genuine pace..............Papps would seem ideal but IMO his technique is flawed v pace................
again the 'hitters' failed to ignite, but by then the game was already out of reach IMO........however I don't care how much supposed batting depth you may have - unless it is able to work as a unit & players evenly contribute individually on a regular basis then it will remain nothing more than a potential.........
H Marshall is the 'best' thing to happen to the NZL middle order - I've said b4 that IMO he bats well in partnerships and has made the other batsmen play 'better' - particularly the 'hitters' like Styris & McMillan...........as well as being able to regularly contribute himself and he builds his innings to a good strike rate.........
James looks as if he has the same sort of attributes & should be persisted with.........and I'd love to see them spend 10 overs or so together in the middle..........
Mills has picked up wickets but still bleeds runs and his last 2 overs at 'the death' undid the good work by Vettori, Astle & McMillan.................likewise he's not getting a lot of shape on the ball - certainly the AUS bowlers are able to get more swing IMO.........
Hamilton or Aldridge or both should be looked at....................nothing ventured nothing gained........
The openers are showing their lack of exposure to genuine pace bowling - and the fact that both are 'converted' to the opening role...........it may well be that we need a genuine opener in ODIs when facing genuine pace..............Papps would seem ideal but IMO his technique is flawed v pace................
again the 'hitters' failed to ignite, but by then the game was already out of reach IMO........however I don't care how much supposed batting depth you may have - unless it is able to work as a unit & players evenly contribute individually on a regular basis then it will remain nothing more than a potential.........
H Marshall is the 'best' thing to happen to the NZL middle order - I've said b4 that IMO he bats well in partnerships and has made the other batsmen play 'better' - particularly the 'hitters' like Styris & McMillan...........as well as being able to regularly contribute himself and he builds his innings to a good strike rate.........
James looks as if he has the same sort of attributes & should be persisted with.........and I'd love to see them spend 10 overs or so together in the middle..........
Arjun
Cricketer Of The Year
Fleming is not an opener and not even a pinch-hitter. He needs to go down. Astle needs to play like he did in the 2002 Christchurch Test against England when he's opening- he's playing and missing too many times. Papps has an average over 50 in ODI's, good for someone new, but they can also try other in-form openers from the domestic series.
The innings-builders would be Fleming, Marshall and Papps/Jones, while Astle, McMillan/Fulton and Styris would hit the ball more often, followed by Cairns and Oram (when fit) only for berserk hitting. Your opinion?
while I agree with your observations I'm also a big fan of 'horses for cources' - this would apply not only to type of player selection but also regarding batting order...........
IMO v pace NZL needs a genuine opener with solid technique - at worst it should be a top order player who is used to facing a new ball attack in both forms of the game..........in this regard I'd actually look to retain Fleming opening as he is such a class act & would rather drop Astle down the order as IMO he does not have good enough technique - problem being the Fleming is having a bad run atm................
however I do not think Papps has the right technique v express pace or on pitches with good pace & bounce..............but is probably suited to NZL type pitches...........as with most NZL batsmen.........meaning than not many are seemingly able to make the changes..........
IMO NZL lack the likes of a Bevan / Martyn or even a Clarke, hell even a Hussey or 2 would be fine atm...............of these 4 only Clarke is an 'explosive' batsman - but even then I'd not call him a 'hitter'...........the Marshalls are potentially the closest we have to batsmen who can build both innings & partnerships.............
IMO Astle, Styris, McMillan, Cains & Oram are more 'hitters' than 'explosive' in that they do not look to rotate the strike enough nor do they take enough singles...........McCullum & Vettori have shown they are capable of both, but they are lower order & should not have to continually pick up the pieces of the batting innings.........
IMO v pace NZL needs a genuine opener with solid technique - at worst it should be a top order player who is used to facing a new ball attack in both forms of the game..........in this regard I'd actually look to retain Fleming opening as he is such a class act & would rather drop Astle down the order as IMO he does not have good enough technique - problem being the Fleming is having a bad run atm................
however I do not think Papps has the right technique v express pace or on pitches with good pace & bounce..............but is probably suited to NZL type pitches...........as with most NZL batsmen.........meaning than not many are seemingly able to make the changes..........
IMO NZL lack the likes of a Bevan / Martyn or even a Clarke, hell even a Hussey or 2 would be fine atm...............of these 4 only Clarke is an 'explosive' batsman - but even then I'd not call him a 'hitter'...........the Marshalls are potentially the closest we have to batsmen who can build both innings & partnerships.............
IMO Astle, Styris, McMillan, Cains & Oram are more 'hitters' than 'explosive' in that they do not look to rotate the strike enough nor do they take enough singles...........McCullum & Vettori have shown they are capable of both, but they are lower order & should not have to continually pick up the pieces of the batting innings.........
perhaps NZL should try.........
Fleming
McCullum
Astle
H Marshall
McMillan / Styris
J Marshall
Cairns
Vettori
Wilson
Mills
Aldridge / Hamilton
but I'd not tell McCullum to go for broke - just play his normal game - IMO he did well enough v Lee in the 20/20.............and I'd break up the 'hitters' with the likes of the Marshall twins as the engine room to build the innings around them.........
Fleming
McCullum
Astle
H Marshall
McMillan / Styris
J Marshall
Cairns
Vettori
Wilson
Mills
Aldridge / Hamilton
but I'd not tell McCullum to go for broke - just play his normal game - IMO he did well enough v Lee in the 20/20.............and I'd break up the 'hitters' with the likes of the Marshall twins as the engine room to build the innings around them.........
it may be stating the obvious, but I doubt Bracewell will last much beyond this series - perhaps SRL................
the decline in Test record last season was offset by the success in ODIs - but they have been torn apart this series & the rose coloured spectacles should have been well & truely removed...........
injuries to Oram & Styris can not excuse how poorly NZL have failed to compete.........
the decline in Test record last season was offset by the success in ODIs - but they have been torn apart this series & the rose coloured spectacles should have been well & truely removed...........
injuries to Oram & Styris can not excuse how poorly NZL have failed to compete.........
Fiery
Banned
Agree wholeheartedly with the last two comments but not the first two. Here's a quote from the cricinfo report:social said:
" Hussey took a beautiful diving catch at deep point, but replays showed the ball may have brushed the ground as he leaped forward (161 for 6)."
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Fiery
Banned
Another quote from New Zealand Herald regarding Brett Lee's character:
"Lee, at a coaching clinic earlier in the week, said he felt sickened by the sight of blood on the wicket but it was fair to say he wasn't showing much sympathy yesterday, leaving it to his captain Ricky Ponting to check on Papps' welfare"
"Lee, at a coaching clinic earlier in the week, said he felt sickened by the sight of blood on the wicket but it was fair to say he wasn't showing much sympathy yesterday, leaving it to his captain Ricky Ponting to check on Papps' welfare"
The 2 in question being..Fiery said:
1.The Hussey catch was fair
2. Lee did not intentionally bowl a "waist-high full toss"
OK, I didn't see any of this ( no FTA TV ), but....
Catches...If it touched the ground or went out of play before the fielder has caught it, it isn't out...That may or may not have been the case, but keep in mind that NZ needed over 9/over at that point and while Cairns was probably the man most likely to make that rate, given his recent form, it seemed very unlikely...in other words in all probability, IT DIDN'T MATTER.
2. Why would someone like Brett Lee, with a bouncer that he had already proven to be very dangerous ( and legal ) bowl a bean ball?
Assuming he did decide to bowl one in order to intimidate/injure a batsman, why would then decide to bowl it at the batsmans waist rather than a more scary/dangerous location?
FaaipDeOiad
Hall of Fame Member
Why should he show sympathy? He's a fast bowler who bowled a well-directed bouncer to a batsman who couldn't handle it and, for what it's worth, was wearing a helmet. If Papps had hit the ground I have no doubt Lee would have gone to check on him, but as it was all he did was stagger back a pace, and plenty of other people including Astle, Lee's captain and eventually the NZ physio all looked into his welfare. Given that Lee obviously intended to hit or intimidate him and achieved exactly that (which is perfectly fair and reasonable conduct for a bowler), I don't see what he had to apologise for. The beamer was a different story, but he DID apoligise for that.Fiery said:
Fiery
Banned
telsor said:
If you didn't see them then you're not really in any position to comment.
1) The Hussey catch was not out and claimed by the fielder in typical Australian fashion when he would have known it and
2) Brett Lee bowled a deliberate "waist-high full toss" which is a beamer in my book with the intention of hitting the batsman.
News » News: Cricketer killed by a beamer
Author/Source: VC Last Updated: 2002-11-21
A cricketer who was batting without a helmet was killed when he was struck on the head as he tried to hook a ”beamer”, an inquest heard on Tuesday.
Flt. Sgt. Jonathon Willis, 39, of the Royal Air Force, who was wearing a cap, collapsed at the wicket after the ball struck him behind his right ear.
He had been opening the batting for RAF Lyneham in a midweek cup fixture at St Erme, near Truro, Cornwall against the local RAF base, St Mawgan.
Flying Officer Scott Weir, a pace bowler, who was in the same team as Flt Sgt Willis a season earlier, was playing his second game of the season after serving in Afghanistan.
He told the inquest in Truro that the conditions had been hot and his hands were sweaty.
The ball slipped out of his hand and became a beamer — a fast ball that reaches the batsman at head height — hitting Flt Sgt Willis without bouncing on the wicket.
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