*Official** New Zealand in England

[anzac]

ok so the latest I've seen from the Kiwi camp is that Bond has a sore back & will not play the next game, making him doubtful for both remaining Tests e match fitness at the least.

Richardson is to have a rest - possibility that McCullum will play as a specialist bat - so when is Hopkins arriving or do they mean to play Papps as 'keeper???

Oram will also be rested but is expected to be ok for the 2nd Test.

No other news re Tuffey etc that I'm aware of so I assume that everyone else is fit & available.........

 

[anzac]

Re Bond - IMO he should be replaced now, as that leaves Martin as the only 'strike' bowler with any reasonable pace, & the NZL attack lacks firepower.........

I see them looking at Butler if they do send Bond home........but it would depend on whether his short bowling is suitable for the remaining venues........or if they are more suitable to a bowler who will bowl a fuller length & pitch it up on a more regular basis...............

 

[anzac]

so far as the batting goes I'd like to see some other faces in the middle order, but I can't see them replacing anyone unless for injury...........

accordingly the only changes I can see are more likely to be in the order rather than personnel - which maintains the scenario of having more players batting out of position............

 

[Loony BoB]

who are the genuine 'strike' / wicket taking alternatives when looking for seam firepower & PACE?????

Certainly not Butler. Maybe we don't have any at all. But it seems everyone is thinking along the lines of "Who are the genuine fast bowlers" rather than "who are the genuine strike/wicket taking alternatives", because Butler is the first but is NOT the latter. How fast is Andre Adams? I remember him bowling reasonably fast. And he IS a genuine strike / wicket taking bowler - well, at least he has a better record than Butler does. Adams isn't "just another" as well, which is vital - I admit that I'd rather Butler over some clone of the existing bowlers, but I'd rather even Bruce Martin over Ian Butler. Speed or not, if you can't perform at domestic level and if you can't take wickets, you shouldn't be in the squad. Butler may be "unlucky", but then again the same could be said for Vettori over the past year. No wickets? Oh, just unlucky. McMillan and Styris out for low scores? Just unlucky. Who put that fielder there, anyway? Bloody bowler bowling a good ball at our batsman... how unlucky!

Butler needs to be better than unlucky, and he shouldn't rely on luck in the first place. If he was a good bowler, he'd get his wickets one way or another.

Is Adams lucky? Maybe. But I'd rather have a lucky bowler than an unlucky one, wouldn't you?

 

[anzac]

Adams is a viable alternative as an attacking bowler - like Franklin his success in his limited exposure in the longer game at international level has perhaps been overshadowed by his recent shortcomings in the ODIs........

it's a pity we can't take a leaf out of the Aussie book & pluck a few more of the youngsters from relative FC obscurity, although it is perhaps a bit too much of a risk in a Test as opposed to ODIs. Eg Bracken hadn't played any more than a handful of FC matches for NSW b4 he was drafted as a replacement for Lee in ODIs when he was injured.

I know there are arguements as to why they should not do so - Butler's lack of success being one & Franklin another example, but nothing ventured nothing gained. I'm thinking along the lines of Scott, Gillespie & Co who are all young & relatively new on the scene. I had a look at Ewan Thompson - mid 20's left arm f/med for CD with only about a dozen FC games under his belt.

I suppose it also comes down to what they are looking for in a bowler & not just the stats..............

hopefully they will take the oportunity re the 'A' team to blood a few more of these guys sooner rather than later to see if they do have the right stuff.......

 

[Loony BoB]

Maybe 'A' teams should tour the countries that test countries tour. At the same time. Imagine the benefits to developing and also for the selection panels as opposed to situations such as, oh, I don't know, only having 14 players in a squad at the other end of the planet.

EDIT: When was the last time NZA played a game?

 

[tooextracool]

*as I've said b4 - IMO Richardson is a very difficult customer to bat WITH unless you are of the same temperament, & IMO this is part of the problem re the batting & poor shot selection.............& this is the basis of my potential dropping of him regarding the philosophy of 'advance the game'..............

you cant drop a player who scored more than 200 runs in a test match and averages in the high 40s just because he is difficult to bat with!!

my other alternative would be to partner him with a 'pinch hitter' on any sort of decent track with license to play shots...........(lets face it we loose early enough wickets as it is - perhaps they could get some sort of start or see off the opening attack)..............and then revert to a more classical opener on any green or dodgy type tracks..............

unfortunately how many selectors modify the side on the basis of how the pitch plays? yeah theres the usual pick a spinner when the pitch is dry etc but AFAIC players like hoggard should rarely get a game in the sub continent and batsman like gayle and tresco shouldnt be playing when theres a bit of green on the wicket.

*I don't know about 'defensively' as opposed to 'patiently'........you've got to have the patience to see what the pitch & bowlers are doing - make adjustments accordingly, see the opening attack off, judge the bowling changes, review your strategy & targets & lay the platform for the innings. However you must then be able to keep the scoreboard ticking over with singles while doing this & rotate the strike - neither of which Richardson can do. Furthermore you need to then be able to put your foot on the gas & launch the innings RR back to a level that your shot makers do not have to go hard at it from the start - another area that Richardson can't perform.........

the one area that you can be critical of richardson is that hes "limited" as a batsman. he has only 2 attacking shots and i find it hard to understand how he managed to make the odi side.

 

[Neil Pickup]

Maybe 'A' teams should tour the countries that test countries tour. At the same time. Imagine the benefits to developing and also for the selection panels as opposed to situations such as, oh, I don't know, only having 14 players in a squad at the other end of the planet.

EDIT: When was the last time NZA played a game?

About two months ago, they smashed Sri Lanka A repeatedly.

 

[Dougie Rydal]

Aaaahhh - all our problems have been solved, it has been reported that Michael Mason has joined the touring party to bowl in the nets during the next tour game.

For gods sake - he's another Kyle Mills, right arm medium paced bowler, he swings it apparantly, although the last time i saw him play was against Yarpies and the only things that were swinging during that performace was the bat and umpires arm.

I do also see Adams and Franklin have been called in too, but no doubt Mills and Mason would be ahead of Adams and Franklin in the pecking order.

They will be too pig headed to go outside their squad, so no doubt the only change will see Mills come in for Tuffey/Martin.

Ridiculous, we need to make some changes now, and some substantial ones to make our attack varied.

I'm not from Wellington, so don't have a James Franklin bias, but i do follow the game and know that he is a considerably better player than when he last played for NZ, his batting is also better, and now bats 4 for Wgtn, not that that should come into the equation, as he'd be batting 9 or 10.

Bottom line is - we are one nil down in a 3 match series, we MUST WIN the next test to give us a chance to win the series.

 

[PY]

Bottom line is - we are one nil down in a 3 match series, we MUST WIN the next test to give us a chance to win the series.

Not a chance, you may as well give up now.

 

[Langeveldt]

Not a chance, you may as well give up now.

It would take a Clarkequake of mutant proportions... Even if he isnt playing

 

[Kent]

Hearing Kiwis debating the merits of fringe NZ bowlers is kind of amusing on an international web forum. It's like a boy rifling though pea-shooters, sparklers and frizbees to find something that might make the big English tank parked in his drive go away!

"Hey, how would you like us to get a bit of James Franklin into you! Why, he's a, he's a 120kph left-armer. He swings it back in on his good days!"

"Right that's it, I'll hit you with an Andre Adams! He gets as as high as 142kph you swine! What do you mean 'when he's not crushing his own toes'?

"You're asking for it now...here's Ian Butler! He's even freshened up his highlights for the occasion. I really like it when he starts punching at the ground - it's like his own trademark or something. He uses it whenever he strikes, like when a #11 gets caught at third-man."

 

[Dougie Rydal]

Mate - the options are very limited, all i'm trying to do is to express how i wud like the nz selectors to try something a little different and look outside the square a bit, rather than pick Mills or Mason.

Believe me; I've faced him, James Franklin ain't that scary, but he does offer variety (albeit on a good day as you succinctly put it)

 

[Kent]

you've got the whole thing all wrong...NZ dont have defensive players all the way down till no 7 do they?the thing is that you need 2 openers in england to play defensively at least while the ball is new, then you have the styris',astles,cairns,orams etc to come in and bludgeon the bowling all over the park.

If I thought Papps was any better at defending or leaving the ball than Fleming is, I'd understand your blueprint. Who's to say Papps won't feel the pressure and play a false shot, seeing he's a young player and he knows his side is trying to win consecutive tests?

If Fleming isn't mentally tough enough to fight through periods where he feels bogged down, we should start by questioning why he's been telling Graeme Smith how much he has to learn about not getting rattled. Asking a younger player to play more patiently isn't the answer.

 

[Kent]

Mate - the options are very limited, all i'm trying to do is to express how i wud like the nz selectors to try something a little different and look outside the square a bit, rather than pick Mills or Mason.

Believe me; I've faced him, James Franklin ain't that scary, but he does offer variety (albeit on a good day as you succinctly put it)

I'm not mocking people for talking about the alternatives, that's what we're all here for after all. I've been pushing Bruce Martin's case on here for ages, but for all I know he could be hopeless at international level.

I do think there's a very strong chance that the best we've got were in that 1st test side though. Tuffey and Martin aren't going to be world-beaters, but I'm highly doubtful any of the more leftfield alternatives could do any better. They'd probably be a lot worse.

 

[anzac]

I'm not mocking people for talking about the alternatives, that's what we're all here for after all. I've been pushing Bruce Martin's case on here for ages, but for all I know he could be hopeless at international level.

I do think there's a very strong chance that the best we've got were in that 1st test side though. Tuffey and Martin aren't going to be world-beaters, but I'm highly doubtful any of the more leftfield alternatives could do any better. They'd probably be a lot worse.

agreed..........however the basis for my concerns comes back to players not being 100% fit and or struggling for form re coming to terms with the different ball etc..............I'm quite happy to have a fully fit Tuffey & Co in the team..........

I'm not advocating permanent or wholesale changes, just looking at options regarding 'strike' replacements for Bond re firepower...........

 

[southern man]

ok so the latest I've seen from the Kiwi camp is that Bond has a sore back & will not play the next game, making him doubtful for both remaining Tests e match fitness at the least.

Richardson is to have a rest - possibility that McCullum will play as a specialist bat - so when is Hopkins arriving or do they mean to play Papps as 'keeper???

Hopkins has been there for a while playing league cricket and he will play the county game.

 

[marc71178]

Hearing Kiwis debating the merits of fringe NZ bowlers is kind of amusing on an international web forum. It's like a boy rifling though pea-shooters, sparklers and frizbees to find something that might make the big English tank parked in his drive go away!

I thought Gatt had retired?

 

[marc71178]

Tuffey and Martin aren't going to be world-beaters, but I'm highly doubtful any of the more leftfield alternatives could do any better. They'd probably be a lot worse.

Out of interest, I assume Tuffey is still either a) unfit or b) short of match practise.

If it's the former then do you rest him in the County game and play him in back-to-back Tests, if the latter then surely he must play this week?

 

[luckyeddie]

It would take a Clarkequake of mutant proportions... Even if he isnt playing

Hell, yeah.

Give 'em Rikki