*Official** New Zealand in England

[SpaceMonkey]

Harmo's now got four four-fers in a row without bowling particularly well...

Sign of a good bowler
Just like a batsmen can eek out runs when he's not on form. Harmison probably isn't the best fast bowler in the world but he isn't far off!

 

[Rich2001]

Originally Posted by PY
Papps has a broken hand and batted with it yesterday and is a severe doubt for the back-to-back Test.

damn & blast - just as the guy was possibly getting a break on the pitch, he gets a break on he pitch of a different sort..........

where did you get that info from??????????? haven't seen anything reported yet...

I heard that during the days play as well and here are a few quote from reports.

BBC: The Somerset opener would have been well short of his ground but substitute fielder Kyle Mills - on for Michael Papps, who has a suspected fractured finger - failed to hit the stumps.

 

[marc71178]

Harmo's now got four four-fers in a row without bowling particularly well...

3 isn't it?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Sign of a good bowler
Just like a batsmen can eek out runs when he's not on form. Harmison probably isn't the best fast bowler in the world but he isn't far off!

That's a bit over the top. Harmison isn't close to being the best fast bowler in the world IMO. McGrath and Gillespie for two are ahead of him and I rate both as far better than Harmison. He's good, but not as good as some would like to believe.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

That's a bit over the top. Harmison isn't close to being the best fast bowler in the world IMO. McGrath and Gillespie for two are ahead of him and I rate both as far better than Harmison. He's good, but not as good as some would like to believe.

Considering how McGrath can hardly bowl the ball straight at the moment i really find that hard to believe I also said he wasnt the best but was right up there. Name 5 fast bowlers at this point in time better?

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

Considering how McGrath can hardly bowl the ball straight at the moment i really find that hard to believe I also said he wasnt the best but was right up there. Name 5 fast bowlers at this point in time better?

Well, given the reports of his poor bowling thus far in the series v NZ, it would be worrying if he were one of the best bowlers.

 

[Mr Mxyzptlk]

There doesn't have to be 5 bowlers better than Harmison for my point to be valid. For example, there may not be 5 batsmen better than Hayden, but that doesn't mean that there's daylight between him and Lara/Tendulkar. Pollock, Gillespie and Glenn "can hardly bowl the ball straight but still has an econ. of less than 3.5 in his last 3 games" McGrath are three. From reports I've heard, Jacob Oram has deserved his wickets far more than Harmison in the current series. Then there's Heath Streak...

 

[Mingster]

so Fleming to open with Richardson for the 3rd Test & Sinclair to come in for Papps (I don't see the point in McMillan batting when recovering from a broken finger), and perhaps Mills to come in for either Tuffey or Martin..........it would depend if Tuffey just needs to blow thru the cobwebs & get the overs under his belt, or if Martin has got his rythmn & release working at all & just needs to get his line / length sorted..........

what's he been bowling at today?????????????

Anzac, Papps will bat in the second innings and is available for the next Test.

Martin was all over the place with the new ball. He should bowl around the wicket to the left-handers moving it away from them instead of the bowling over which the England batsmen negotiated well.

 

[Mingster]

Tuffey is obviously not 100% as we all been saying so why is he there ..
Oram only batting is not good enough.. he should NOT be playing
Martin should have either been replaced by mills or butler
Bond.. we really need him!
Veto.. good to see some type of form finally !

Its a pitty we are such a strong ODI team but we seem to have a habbit in test matches to just colapse

Oram is good enough to play as a specialist batsman, and he showed it last night. His 39 was well-compiled and helped NZ reach 409. Would you rather have seen Sinclair play then instead of an inform batsman in Oram?

Martin should not have been replaced after the 1st Test, he did not do any worse than Tuffey, Cairns or Vettori. What makes you think Mill would have done much better?

 

[Mingster]

LOL - it's not as easy as that. NZ could just as easily score less than 400 (like they did in both innings at Lords). Anyway, 150 runs in 2 hours is quite unbelievable, I'd settle for another 70-100 runs today. I hope Cairns & McCullum atleast try and play themselves in, before attacking.

Cairns and McCullum put on 200 in a session only a few months ago against South Africa.

Had only Cairns settled in, I'm sure we could have reached 450 and the chance of us losing would almost dimunish.

 

[southern man]

It was Cairns and Oram wasnt it.

 

[MoxPearl]

Mingster.. i rekon oram is a all rounder.. i dont think he should b playing just as a batter when we really need to win this game..

we do have better batters than him.. and also we could have replaced him by another all rounder (Harris or adams for example)


Also i dont know why people seem to think england will win this.. imho the game is extremelly 50/50 at the moment.. if u look at the england scorecard.. without the openers (who are now both out) its a pretty sad scorecard...

 

[Mingster]

Mingster.. i rekon oram is a all rounder.. i dont think he should b playing just as a batter when we really need to win this game..

we do have better batters than him.. and also we could have replaced him by another all rounder (Harris or adams for example)


Also i dont know why people seem to think england will win this.. imho the game is extremelly 50/50 at the moment.. if u look at the england scorecard.. without the openers (who are now both out) its a pretty sad scorecard...

Great. You have just suggested Harris as a Test allrounder. Your argument has no real credit after that statement. Adams is not a Test allrounder, he can't bat for long enough periods. ODI allrounder he might qualify but certainly not a Test allrounder.

So you think by playing Oram as a specialist batsman it means we can't win this Test? Care to elaborate?

I guess they also had an option of playing Sinclair ahead of Oram as the batsman, but that was too big a risk playing someone who is a renowned for inconsistency. Oram is one of the form batsman in this team at the moment and fully deserves his selection.

 

[MoxPearl]

i didnt say we cant win.. but i say that if u go in to a test u need to win.. u SHOULD have a full strenth team.. oram is a allrounder.. we have BETTER batters than him .. and even if we got a better batter i still think we are missing 1 bowler without him..

Adams is not that bad in tests (Hes only been tried for nz once).. and neither is harris..

The bowling is DEFINATLY the lowest point in the nz team at the moment.. so to have a allrounder playing only batter to me seems a bit stupid..

 

[luckyeddie]

Well, given the reports of his poor bowling thus far in the series v NZ, it would be worrying if he were one of the best bowlers.

Not at all sure where your reports are coming from, but I suspect more than the odd bucket of sour grapes might be involved.

Harmison's bowled 'all right' in the 3 innings against New Zealard so far (poor by his own admission) - the odd poor ball, the odd poor over, the odd devastating ball - and far, far more likely to take a wicket than anyone else on show on either side.

He's also been carrying the attack with respect to number of overs, keeping batters quiet when the ball's gone soft etc - the 'stock' bowler job - and taken the odd wicket too, mainly because he's had to (the rest of the attack, one fabulous spell by Jones in the first test excepted, being totally ineffective at times).

So far in the series, he's bagged 12-276 in 96.2 overs - a phenomenal effort as far as fitness alone is concerned.

You're right to single Oram out for praise though (in another post), especially during England's first innings at Lord's.

 

[Neil Pickup]

i didnt say we cant win.. but i say that if u go in to a test u need to win.. u SHOULD have a full strenth team.. oram is a allrounder.. we have BETTER batters than him .. and even if we got a better batter i still think we are missing 1 bowler without him..

Adams is not that bad in tests (Hes only been tried for nz once).. and neither is harris..

The bowling is DEFINATLY the lowest point in the nz team at the moment.. so to have a allrounder playing only batter to me seems a bit stupid..

I wouldn't pick Adams in a Test match as an all-rounder, and Sinclair has a horrible tendency to self-destruct. Oram has impressed me this series - and the only reason I'm not convinced about the selection is the chance of aggravating the side strain and putting him out of the third test (actually, I wouldn't mind that...)

 

[MoxPearl]

yeah oram has impressed me to.. but hes a allrounder.. and he IS injured..

I know not many people will agree with me.. but i think taylor should b in the team.. he would have been a perfect replacement..

 

[Mingster]

MoxPearl, you talk nonsense. Ross Taylor in the New Zealand Test team? Bloody hell man. If you have watched any of his first-class games, apart from just the statistics, you would see he is certainy not ready for Test cricket yet. He's too impatient and often goes for reckless shots if he goes 6 balls without scoring.

Chris Harris is not a Test allrounder. I don't even know where he got the idea that he is in the first place. ODI allrounder? Definitely but not Test.

Adams is that bad. He sprays his deliveries everywhere and his batting is overrated in the longer form of the game.

And would you actually suggest a better batsman in the NZ squad at the moment that's better than the in-form Oram?

 

[Mingster]

And Oram's injury is not that bad - it's all hyped up by the media. Even Oram himself said that he's nearly right and is improving each day and there is a strong possibility he might bowl today or tomorow if needed.

 

[MoxPearl]

yeah i have seen ross taylor.. i like the way he plays.. and yes i do think he has a place in the nz team..

but i guess we have to agree to disagree :P

yes adams does spray the ball around.. but he DOES get wickets..hes a good bowler to mix things up when we need wickets..

but like i said.. i guess we have to agree to disagree lol