***Official*** NatWest Series/Challenge

[social]

Well, aside from the first 10 overs (England should have been 2 for under 20) Aus was pretty poor in bowling stakes.

As with England earlier in the day, main problem is consistency of line and length.

Would be easy to blame toss, pitch, sun, etc but we still should have made things more difficult.

For example, everyone now knows Strauss has poor footwork but is strong square of wicket, so why bowl short and wide? Tresco is weak outside off-stump (must have played and missed 25 times today), so why bowl short and wide?

Im not as downcast as some about Gillespie - he reached 88 mph today and simply needs more bowling. Same for Kaspa.

In fact, all Aussies need more 4 day cricket not more meaningless, dull one-dayers.

It would be easy to point fingers at administrators for the scarcity of "proper" cricket before the Ashes but as well-paid professionals, Aus has to adjust.

The main problem, IMO, is that we are yet to play a decent side on a decent wicket. Bristol, Durham, green-top Lords, and below-par Headingley are hardly conducive
to batting confidence.

 

[Mister Wright]

By what standard? 8 overs for 32 as I type, around 10 of those coming from noballs (remembering one no-ball went for 4 byes as well). He's put the vast majority of his balls on the spot. Just because he hasn't taken a wicket and he's gone for 4 an over doesn't mean he's been "inconsistant".

Just because a bowler hasn't gone for many runs doesn't mean he hasn't been inconsistent. Watch him bowl, don't worry about the stats. He has been all over the place and hasn't found a rythum, a poor case for test selection IMO.

He hasn't played a test in 18 months.

His recent test record does not mean recent - it means the last tests that he has played.

Haven't you been championing the case to drop Gillespie? Both Kasprowicz and Gillespie have been poor on the tour to New Zealand, and poor so far on the tour of England. Explain the difference, aside from the fact that Kasprowicz is from Queensland and Gillespie is not. Both of them have been consistent performers, and both of them are out of form. Gillespie however is more established in the team, and is younger, and has recovered from poor form before (although as time goes by I'm starting to doubt that he will do so again).

.

I'm a huge, huge fan of Gillespie. Who cares if he's not from Qld? Certainly not me. I was one of the few people who when he was at his peak was saying that he was a better bowler than McGrath, in heindsight a stupid statement, but at the time he was bowling really well and McGrath was poor. However, I stand corrected and McGrath has proven to be the old stager he always was going to be, so I take a bow to the man. I was campaigning Gillespie's temporary dropping from the one day side while he was out of form, and that may very well happen next week. You need to get this idea that I am biased towards Qlders, because I'm not. If a player deservest their spot ahead of a Qlder I will be all for it, it is when they don't that I get upset.

They didn't have to hit him for boundaries at Lords either, and he took two wickets. In fact, England were only chasing 250 in Durham where he was brilliant as well.

.

Chasing 250 is a different story to chasing 219 odd. You can pace your innings a lot easier and not have to set that initial firing pace.

The fact is, every observer without fail recognises that Lee has looked in very good touch so far this tour, and has troubled the England top order. He dominated New Zealand and didn't get a run in the test team, and he dominated in the VB series and didn't get a run in the test team. In the VB series it was fair enough, since Kasprowicz was performing. In NZ though, he so clearly had the wood over the NZ top order he should have been picked, and Kasper had a poor tour. Now, Kasprowicz has been absolutely dire this tour, Gillespie almost as bad, and Lee has been excellent. You talk about him being dropped "for his poor performance", but when he performs poorly you ignore it.

.

Yes, he has looked good - I have said so, but that is ODI cricket - not test match cricket. We saw today what will happen in tests. He will be seen off and will not be as effective when having to chase quick runs against him. Kasper wasn't the only bowler to have a poor NZ tour, Gillespie wasn't far behind him, yet you still reckon he's a 'dead cert' for the test, I wouldn't be so sure now.

There's still two more ODIs and tour matches for Kasprowicz to make his case, but as it stands Lee absolutely deserves selection ahead of him, by any criteria.

In one day cricket yes. In test match cricket no.

 

[Mister Wright]

Here's 3 hints

1. Gabba

2. Queensland

3. Chairman and founder of Kaspa's fan club

Get off it. Seriously, you don't know what you're on about.

 

[marc71178]

The main problem, IMO, is that we are yet to play a decent side on a decent wicket. Bristol, Durham, green-top Lords, and below-par Headingley are hardly conducive
to batting confidence.

6 games between England and Australia.

3 England wins, 1 Australian win, a tie and a no result.

But England aren't a decent side?

 

[marc71178]

His recent test record does not mean recent - it means the last tests that he has played.

For the record, Brett Lee's last 30 Tests - 97 wickets @ 38.42, eco of 3.72.

 

[Mister Wright]

The main problem, IMO, is that we are yet to play a decent side on a decent wicket. Bristol, Durham, green-top Lords, and below-par Headingley are hardly conducive
to batting confidence.

Those are the conditions we will likely face, so I don't see what you have to argue about. And as Marc says England are a decent side. They certainly have the momentum against us.

 

[Hoggy31]

I expect Australia to use these last two games to trial Gillespie and Kasprowicz against eachother for the third bowler spot in the test matches

 

[social]

6 games between England and Australia.

3 England wins, 1 Australian win, a tie and a no result.

But England aren't a decent side?

Youve misunderstood me.

England are obviously a very good side - unquestionably at least the second best in the world.

However, the wickets served up this summer have been ordinary.

 

[social]

Get off it. Seriously, you don't know what you're on about.

Since the end of the Pak tour of Aus, youve used any no. of arguments to justify Kaspa's inclusion in the team.

Lee's got a poor test record - pick Kaspa

Gillespie's not bowling well - pick Kaspa

Lee bowled a couple of poor overs at the death in a losing cause - pick Kaspa.

Kaspa has bowled and fielded incredibly poorly on this trip to date.

At present, there is no argument that can be used to justify his inclusion at anybody's expense.

If I were a selector, the last 2 Natwest games and the only lead-up game would be used as a bowl-off betwen Kaspa and Gillespie because, IMO, McGrath, Lee and Warne are certainties (and this one-day series means zip in the scheme of things).

 

[Hoggy31]

If both Kasper and Gillespie are really struggling in the tests i reckon Tait should definately be looked at

 

[steds]

However, the wickets served up this summer have been ordinary.

So we have to play on roads for the games to be fair? Both sides have to bat and bowl on the same wicket, be it flat, ordinary, seaming, dry, whatever. You can't use pitches as an excuse for losing - it's who makes better use of the wicket that wins.

 

[aussie]

I beg to differ...

why not, even though their top class performers and are bound to hit top form on tour, but as long has thier dull run with the bat & ball respectively continues you would have to be a bit worried.

 

[Crazy Sam]

gillespie is hopelessly out of form. we've got to get someone else in there.

i gave up watching the cricket last night as it seemed every five minutes channel 7 were going to london updates.

 

[aussie]

Just because a bowler hasn't gone for many runs doesn't mean he hasn't been inconsistent. Watch him bowl, don't worry about the stats. He has been all over the place and hasn't found a rythum, a poor case for test selection IMO.



Yes, he has looked good - I have said so, but that is ODI cricket - not test match cricket. We saw today what will happen in tests. He will be seen off and will not be as effective when having to chase quick runs against him. Kasper wasn't the only bowler to have a poor NZ tour, Gillespie wasn't far behind him, yet you still reckon he's a 'dead cert' for the test, I wouldn't be so sure now.

it seems to be that u have gone down on Lee based on his average performaces yesterday, why cant his good performaces in the other games in England be transcribed into the test??? why is it that yesterday's performance will happen in the tests???

 

[aussie]

If both Kasper and Gillespie are really struggling in the tests i reckon Tait should definately be looked at

nah i wont want to retreat to that possibility at all, one of them will get into from i have a gut feeling.

 

[vic_orthdox]

why not, even though their top class performers and are bound to hit top form on tour, but as long has thier dull run with the bat & ball respectively continues you would have to be a bit worried.

Marc was talking from an English perspective, I'm pretty sure...

 

[Mister Wright]

Since the end of the Pak tour of Aus, youve used any no. of arguments to justify Kaspa's inclusion in the team.

Lee's got a poor test record - pick Kaspa

Gillespie's not bowling well - pick Kaspa

Lee bowled a couple of poor overs at the death in a losing cause - pick Kaspa.

Kaspa has bowled and fielded incredibly poorly on this trip to date.

At present, there is no argument that can be used to justify his inclusion at anybody's expense.

If I were a selector, the last 2 Natwest games and the only lead-up game would be used as a bowl-off betwen Kaspa and Gillespie because, IMO, McGrath, Lee and Warne are certainties (and this one-day series means zip in the scheme of things).

Well considering Gillepie has played all the games in the one day series' and Lee all but two and Kaspa only 3 it is hard to say Kaspa is out of form. Who's to say if he had of been playing in all the games that his form would have improved. Everyone was saying after the first few games that Gillespie is short of a gallop and just needs some games under his belt - well, he now has games under his belt and still isn't bowling to the standard that he needs to. If Kaspa does play the rest of the one dayers and the tour game and doesn't perform than I will admit he has to be dropped.

 

[social]

So we have to play on roads for the games to be fair? Both sides have to bat and bowl on the same wicket, be it flat, ordinary, seaming, dry, whatever. You can't use pitches as an excuse for losing - it's who makes better use of the wicket that wins.

Its not about losing, its about getting batsmen in form.

Since the first ODI, Aus has not played on a decent wicket. As such, batsmen who need a hit are not getting anything like ideal circumstances to do so. You need look no further than the fact that part-timers like Collingwood and Symonds have been as effective as anyone.

Yesterday's wicket was a shocker and, given that the weather changed later on, the match was simply decided at the toss.

 

[Mister Wright]

it seems to be that u have gone down on Lee based on his average performaces yesterday, why cant his good performaces in the other games in England be transcribed into the test??? why is it that yesterday's performance will happen in the tests???

Golly, gosh - this is frustrating. I've always said Lee is a good one day bowler, because he has the pace to unsettle batsman especially when they need to score quickly. Last night's performance showed to me what batsman will do to Lee when they play him in the extended form of the game where they don't have to score at 5 or 6 an over. They can just play him out, wait for the bad one and put it away. The field will be more spread and the gaps will be there.

 

[social]

Well considering Gillepie has played all the games in the one day series' and Lee all but two and Kaspa only 3 it is hard to say Kaspa is out of form. Who's to say if he had of been playing in all the games that his form would have improved. Everyone was saying after the first few games that Gillespie is short of a gallop and just needs some games under his belt - well, he now has games under his belt and still isn't bowling to the standard that he needs to. If Kaspa does play the rest of the one dayers and the tour game and doesn't perform than I will admit he has to be dropped.

Gillespie and Kaspa need to play all remaining matches before the first test.

Whomever performs better should partner McGrath, Lee and Warne in the first test.