***Official*** NatWest Series/Challenge

[Mister Wright]

Gillespie and Kaspa need to play all remaining matches before the first test.

Whomever performs better should partner McGrath, Lee and Warne in the first test.

No. I'd say who bowls better in the first class warm up game should play.

 

[vic_orthdox]

I think we're also starting to see what happens when the ball isn't moving for Lee. I've probably said this elsewhere, but still...

1. The white ball hoops early much more than the red ball.
2. The white ball starts to reverse much earlier than the red ball.
3. Brett Lee is a very good bowler when the ball is new, or it is reversing.
4. Brett Lee is a mediocre bowler when the ball is not new or it isn't reversing.
5. The majority of bowling will have to be done when the ball is not new or it isn't reversing - natural law of circket
6. In the one dayers when the ball hasn't been moving all that much, and the batsman haven't had to slog, Lee has looked much less threatening.
7. Therefore, it is perfectly fair to still have qualms over Lee as a Test Match bowler.

 

[aussie]

Golly, gosh - this is frustrating. I've always said Lee is a good one day bowler, because he has the pace to unsettle batsman especially when they need to score quickly. Last night's performance showed to me what batsman will do to Lee when they play him in the extended form of the game where they don't have to score at 5 or 6 an over. They can just play him out, wait for the bad one and put it away. The field will be more spread and the gaps will be there.

you make Lee sound like a spinner , he pretty quick so if he gets it right i dont think it will be that easy to play him out.

 

[vic_orthdox]

you make Lee sound like a spinner , he pretty quick so if he gets it right i dont think it will be that easy to play him out.

Name the last quality batsman who was worried by pace alone?

 

[Mister Wright]

you make Lee sound like a spinner , he pretty quick so if he gets it right i dont think it will be that easy to play him out.

But the thing is, he doesn't get it right often enough in first class cricket. Yes, one ball every now and again, but he is far to this side of the wicket, that side of the wicket - not good enough for test cricket, sorry. In the shorter form of the game the balls that would normally be left in test cricket are played at more often at the start of the innings, especially chasing big totals. Two different types of games.

 

[Mister Wright]

I think we're also starting to see what happens when the ball isn't moving for Lee. I've probably said this elsewhere, but still...

1. The white ball hoops early much more than the red ball.
2. The white ball starts to reverse much earlier than the red ball.
3. Brett Lee is a very good bowler when the ball is new, or it is reversing.
4. Brett Lee is a mediocre bowler when the ball is not new or it isn't reversing.
5. The majority of bowling will have to be done when the ball is not new or it isn't reversing - natural law of circket
6. In the one dayers when the ball hasn't been moving all that much, and the batsman haven't had to slog, Lee has looked much less threatening.
7. Therefore, it is perfectly fair to still have qualms over Lee as a Test Match bowler.

Exactly. Well put.

 

[aussie]

6. In the one dayers when the ball hasn't been moving all that much, and the batsman haven't had to slog, Lee has looked much less threatening.

7. Therefore, it is perfectly fair to still have qualms over Lee as a Test Match bowler.

well their has been plenty in the pitch to assist Lee this summer, even though he is still less threatening when their is no assistance he has looked dull. The fact that he will have assistance on offer during the tests says that he could be effective during the ashes.

 

[aussie]

Name the last quality batsman who was worried by pace alone?

well during the ashes they're will be pace and movement... that will be good enough to trouble any quality batsman.

 

[vic_orthdox]

well their has been plenty in the pitch to assist Lee this summer, even though he is still less threatening when their is no assistance he has looked dull. The fact that he will have assistance on offer during the tests says that he could be effective during the ashes.

But he rarely moves the ball off the seam, and this is the sort of movement that you see maintained throughout an innings (generally) - not movement in the air (unless your bowling Collingwoods, the slower pace gives the ball more chance to swing).

 

[vic_orthdox]

And in addition, Lee is hardly a Fleming type who could extract swing out of a hot dog roll. He can swing a ball early-doors (his hoop is also rather early, in most cases, as opposed to the later swing of a Fleming-type) and reverse it, but as soon as the shine is gone, it's dead straight doorknobs.

 

[Scallywag]

Pietersons catch looked very iffy in replay and live.

 

[Top_Cat]

Pietersons catch looked very iffy in replay and live.

Only if you're blind. His hands were clearly under it.

 

[Linda]

Kaspa in for Gillespie for mine. Give him a rest (perhaps a haircut), and bring him back once the tour matches start.

 

[social]

I think we're also starting to see what happens when the ball isn't moving for Lee. I've probably said this elsewhere, but still...

1. The white ball hoops early much more than the red ball.
2. The white ball starts to reverse much earlier than the red ball.
3. Brett Lee is a very good bowler when the ball is new, or it is reversing.
4. Brett Lee is a mediocre bowler when the ball is not new or it isn't reversing.
5. The majority of bowling will have to be done when the ball is not new or it isn't reversing - natural law of circket
6. In the one dayers when the ball hasn't been moving all that much, and the batsman haven't had to slog, Lee has looked much less threatening.
7. Therefore, it is perfectly fair to still have qualms over Lee as a Test Match bowler.

Some, or all, of what you say may turn out to be true.

But unfortunately, no-one has any idea as to how Lee will perform in the longer form of the game because he has bowled the grand total of 32 overs in fc cricket in the past year.

However, since he last played test cricket what cannot be disputed is that:

a. he is fitter;

b. he is consistently quicker; and

c. his action has improved considerably.

He provides much needed variety to the attack, is a first-rate fieldsman and has done more than required to justify a recall.

He has troubled the entire English top order (let us not forget that but for a no-ball and a dropped catch, England was staring down the barrel again last night) and has, IMO, Strauss' measure.

Also, it should be remembered that it was not him that relieved the pressure last night but Gillespie, Watson, Hogg, etc.

Meanwhile, the bowling AND fielding of Gillespie and Kaspa is at career low levels.

Let's not have another series where opposing players are openly commenting upon the fact that the Australian team would be stronger with Lee in it.

 

[age_master]

Only if you're blind. His hands were clearly under it.

definatley

 

[luckyeddie]

Pietersons catch looked very iffy in replay and live.

Well, seeing as it's you who are questioning it, that probably vindicates it as a perfectly good catch.

Are you deliberately being obtuse on this occasion? Your public ought to be told of at least one redeeming feature. Maybe you help blind people across the road - or at least half way.

 

[Scallywag]

Well, seeing as it's you who are questioning it, that probably vindicates it as a perfectly good catch.

Are you deliberately being obtuse on this occasion? Your public ought to be told of at least one redeeming feature. Maybe you help blind people across the road - or at least half way.

It was quite funny how the ****atoo looked like he sold his soul to the devil when the cameras were on him after the replay on the big screen. Looks like others are getting the same pangs eh LE.

 

[luckyeddie]

It was quite funny how the ****atoo looked like he sold his soul to the devil when the cameras were on him after the replay on the big screen. Looks like others are getting the same pangs eh LE.

That one's gone right over my head - please explain.

Seriously, I get the '****atoo' bit but was at work from 7.00 am until 9.00 pm yesterday, then back in at 6.30 this morning. The only TV I saw was coverage of the bombs (Oh, and the kind thoughts in the other thread were nice - I genuinely mean that) so, really, I'm not pulling your chain here. I really don't know.

(yes, he DOES look an asp)

 

[social]

It was quite funny how the ****atoo looked like he sold his soul to the devil when the cameras were on him after the replay on the big screen. Looks like others are getting the same pangs eh LE.

Rather than debating the legality of a catch that a fieldsman claimed, an umpire confirmed, and the batsman accepted, perhaps we should talk about the fact that one of the world's premier players of pace bowling somehow contrived to hit a slow long-hop down the throat of deep mid-wicket.

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

Rather than debating the legality of a catch that a fieldsman claimed, an umpire confirmed, and the batsman accepted, perhaps we should talk about the fact that one of the world's premier players of pace bowling somehow contrived to hit a slow long-hop down the throat of deep mid-wicket.

Indeed. I must admit I wasn't especially happy to see Pietersen claiming the catch he took at third man of Martyn, and believe he knew it wasn't out. This one however, he had his fingers under.