**Official** India v Pakistan

[Sudeep]

Oh he is a great player. A player like Tendulkar doesnt become a nobody because of an innings or two. As Zaheer said yesterday when some Indians were badmouthing him on TV, " You guys dont have a clue how blessed you are in having Tendulkar in your country. We feel pride because of him even in Pakistan. You people should think ten times before bringing his name to your lips lat alone badmouthing a master like him"

And I agree.

The fact that many on this forum may rubbish him is not going to make an iota of difference to what Sachin is and his place in history.

We need to learn to be able to cricticise him/ or praise for his individual performances without confusing it with his overall stature as a batsman over his career and his stature in world cricket (even today) and his place in history.

By doing otherwise we just show ourselves as the small fry that we are in comparison to giants like him and many others.

Those who feel good about themselves and their own extimation of themselves as students of the game by pulling down icons like Sachin, Warne, Sobers, Lara and so many others, only expose the smallness of their thinking and of their being.

Having said that, the fact is that Sachin seems to have lost that something which made him special and with every passing match, all of us are getting less and less confident that we will see him in those hues again.

Best. Post. Ever.

 

[Pratters]

I have made many sensible arguments which you have failed to catch because of the fact that right now you are sentimental...

And the fact you say he has so much critisism to face...I beg to differ...pleeeease..he still is believed to be God-like in India...except for some ppl I too know call him selfish and all...I too hate to hear that,that is unacceptable...but lets face it...and you cant have any statistics for this...the way he is playing recently,you cant blame those people either

Forget the sentimentality which you think exists and hides my judgement.

The selfishness which some people call him is the one thing I am referring to which you also hate as you said.

The criticisms including from you are unwarranted. If you would say he is incosistent now than the past, maybe you could have a point by the low scores. But that too doesnt say he is past his best. The big scores he has been getting prove he still has a lot left in him.

 

[nikhil1772]

Well S.R.Tendulkar didnt win many test matches in the past because of his batting too. He came close like v/s Pakistan in Chennai. But he got out playing the risky shots you seemed to like so much in the past as well

To tell the truth,as a kid I used to argue till my last possible breath in favour of ST whenever people labelled him as selfish or anything of tht kind...I loved him...in seventh grade I prepared a collage of all the stickers I could get of him and made a book of it which was completed by the 'Never Ending Genius' article from 'Times Of India'...It was tht time when he met Bradman on his 90th birthday....

I miss those days...and looking back at those times I still remind myself that I still like a certain Mr.Sachin Ramesh Tendulkar...one of the best batsmen ever

Peace

 

[SJS]

Sachin's only 31 and will most likely come back as good as ever. One only has to look at the case of Brian Lara, who sunk to far lower depths than Sachin is at now, but came back to be as good as ever, if not better. His (Lara's) batting style has changed quite substantially, and there probably isn't as much magic about his batting now as there is before, but there is no doubt that he is a much more mature and responsible batsman and has benefitted from being so. Maybe that's what Sachin is at least trying to do, as Pratyush is hinting at.

Yes thats pretty accurate.

Sachin is just over thirty. A batsman is at the peak of his powers at this stage of his career. I dont see why it should be different with Sachin.

Of course, we will not see the dash of his younger days (remember he scored a 17 ball fifty on his first tour to Pakistan at 16 ) but we havent seen the last of sachin for sure.

I dont think he is going to stop before 15000 test runs and 45 test centuries.

The problem, as I said before, is that while discussing an individual performance of sachin we end up making declarations about them(either way) as cricketers which is ridiculous. Why cant we discuss , these icons who we are blessed to have playing during our life times, without so much rhetoric.

Why does every failure invite eternal denunciation. AND every criticism appear like blasphemy !!

 

[ReallyCrazy]

Attack is the best form of defence. We saw that in the first test match which was drawn.

Even though India lost this one, I am happy there was a result. If it was a draw that would have sucked. I am actually happy that Pkaistan won coz India never looked like going for a win even when they had 9 wickets in hand. They deserved to lose..........it was a sore sight to see Dravid and Tendulkar wasting deliveries and playing for time. And it was pathetic watching Ganguly bat.

 

[Pratters]

Oh sure. I also think he is a very intelligent cricketer and I have great regard for his cricketing savvy. Maybe there was something he felt that we couldnt see. But we really couldnt.

Which is why you felt so disappointed. The fact that you knew he had such good cricket brains and being bewildered by the way he played. Till he answers reasons for the way he batted, we wont know.

Yes I still have faith and i am convinced that Sachins problems are more in the head than anywhere else. He has started thinking too much about how he is going to play each innings. He is not Sunil Gavaskar. When Sunny tried to be spontaeous, he would fail to deliver. sachin is the opposite. He is a natural cricketer and he must play his natural game. Again I am not talking of big hitting, nor do I expect his physical attributes not to change with age. I jsut feel he needs to relax and go in and play totally like say Laxman does (remember I did not say Sehwag).

In one dayers, I think the format does not allow him to think too much about do's and dont's so we see more of the Sachin we know still in the onme day game but in the test matches he is thinking too much about what he is going to do and if it doesnt work, he , probably thinks more about it and makes some more strategies. At least thats how it appears to me.

I dont think there is much wrong with his game otherwise.

I appreciate the fact that you dont think there is too much wrong with his game. It is indeed a bit in the mind which has caused the recent inconsistency.

I think he plays too stiffly. He has cut out a lot of risks which is the way to go as far as I am concerned as often in his blazing innings he would play an unnecessary shot and get out.

He needs to stop thinking and play more freely stroke wise. Doesnt mean agressively but he should as you say, be mentally like Laxman. Not thinking too much which he is doing right now.

Laxman does have one of the best approaches to batting. Just inconsistent cos he swishes a bit extra in laziness to balls outside the off stump. Else he would always play the way he plays like the Australians. Sigh.

 

[Sudeep]

Even I was disappointed with Sachin's batting today, but he can't be criticized for it, because evidently it was a policy decided by the team, and not Sachin himself. Neither batsman looked in a positive frame of mind. It's not sensible to blast Sachin for his batting, when every single batsmen, except for Kumble, looked horrible.

 

[ReallyCrazy]

Yes thats pretty accurate.

Sachin is just over thirty. A batsman is at the peak of his powers at this stage of his career. I dont see why it should be different with Sachin.

Of course, we will not see the dash of his younger days (remember he scored a 17 ball fifty on his first tour to Pakistan at 16 ) but we havent seen the last of sachin for sure.

I dont think he is going to stop before 15000 test runs and 45 test centuries.

The problem, as I said before, is that while discussing an individual performance of sachin we end up making declarations about them(either way) as cricketers which is ridiculous. Why cant we discuss , these icons who we are blessed to have playing during our life times, without so much rhetoric.

Why does every failure invite eternal denunciation. AND every criticism appear like blasphemy !!

But one thing you need to remember...he may be "only" 31, most batters peak but he has played 16 years of international cricket.

 

[honestbharani]

A team written off after the defeat in Kolkata came back strongly in the third and final Test, right from the first day, even when they started at 7 for 2. A giant partnership of over 300 followed, then more big partnerships, as they made 570 in all, with Younis Khan's 264 standing out. They then bowled out the Indians for a little over 440, then put together more big partnerships, setting the Indians a stiff target on the final day- the Indians could at least hang on- but they couldn't. And they ask, "What went wrong here?"

You should have known- at least three years ago. They have made the same mistakes far too long, be it home, or away. A comparison of each player's performance with that of his opposition number will tell you what went wrong, and it's the same thing that's been going wrong right from their tour of Zimbabwe in 2001.

The only positive for the Indians, apart from loads of negatives, was the opening partnership of Sehwag and Gambhir. Although Gambhir did not have too many big scores (he still finished with a score over 50), he gave Sehwag valuable support as there were not one, not two, but four stands of over 80 for the series, including a century partnership. Gambhir tried to get into a shell once too often in this match, and should have let rip once in a while, or just tip and run over, then save his best for the spinners, as he did against the Proteas. The Pakistani openers were a lot less consistent, though as many as four were tried in three matches, with Shahid Afridi being the most effective with his unconventional style.

Save the phenomenal performances by Sehwag, they had done nothing of note as a batting side, as four highly illustrious batsmen to follow. The Pakistani middle-order batted with a positive intent and a plan that paid off. They tapped the ball in gaps and ran hard, and hit only the boundary balls for four or six. They tried to occupy the crease as much as possible, while making it productive. In comparison, the Indian middle-order played out far too many dot balls, in a manner that could be best described as apprehensive. After spending a rather long time without doing much, they played needless, rash shots to get out. Some of them were giving catching practice to the fielders.

Neither team's lower order did much, though Younis Khan showed how to bat with the tail. He struck the ball hard, looking for fours, then rotated the strike, but he had confidence in the batting of the man at the other end. In contrast, Sachin played like a small man put on the mat by a Sumo heavyweight, and that was what cost the team time, runs, a few brownie poitnts and thus the match. Inzamam batted with a lot of maturity and still kept up a good strike rate, showing his opposition number how it's done. But Ganguly is one of the worst learners around- he doesn't know what shot to play, against whom, when, and doesn't even care a whistle for singles. Laxman was a slight exception, since he played a good, tough innings under pressure, but couldn't repeat it in the second innings.

Kamran Akmal gave his bowlers, particularly the spinners, good support and gave little away, and the 26 runs he made boosted a partnership with Younis. In constrast, Dinesh Karthik was dreadful behind the stumps as he let one bye to the boundary too many, and his apprehensive batting didn't help his team when they needed it. The Indian selectors should forget about a wicketkeeper who can bat. They need to find a wicketkeeper who can keep instead.

The bowling attacks of both sides were sub-par, but one of them was lucky to get away with 20 wickets. Pathan and Balaji were getting a hint of swing, but it was of little use on a flat pitch. Pathan, however, didn't help himself by bowling diagonally, and gievn his woeful form with ball and bat, he seems far from ready and needs a break- a long one, until he fine-tunes his bowling and batting skills, and gets more wickets and runs for Baroda and West Zone. Balaji was struggling since the Mohali Test and could do little, since the batsmen got used to his slow pace and predictable swing. Their opposition counterparts fared no better- Sami's no-ball counter kept ticking (though he was unplayable at some stages at his pace) and Abdul Razzaq had the same problems as the Indian medium-pacers.

Danish Kaneria is developing into a world-class leg-spinner and his 6 wickets on that flat deck are no easy feat, while his leg-spinning partner Shahid Afridi was a tad lucky- the Indian batsmen were playing the wrong shots against the faster leg-spinners that popped out in strange paths. On the other hand, Kumble struggled throughout the match, getting no bounce, no turn, little pace and no wickets- for over 150 runs in the first innings. Harbhajan bowled well to take six wickets, but was not used properly in the second innings, where he went for lots of runs with a field full of gaps, while Arshad Khan didn't have much to show at the end of this match. The fielding of both teams was far from satisfactory, but the field settings for the Indian side wouldn't win too many matches, even with top class bowlers in their ranks.

The crowd for the match was one of the most biased you would ever find. Sure, cheer loudly for your team, applaud politely for the other, stay silent if things don't go your way, but please, don't cheer at someone else's mistake! Loud roars came each time a Pakistani bowled a no-ball. This looks (and sounds) bad on international television. They can't be blamed for booing and jeering Ganguly though- everyone's fed up with him, except, probably, the selectors.

A disappointing farewell for John Wright, the outgoing coach. Here is one man who knows how to go about things. He is a good man for a coach. He knows how important it is to stick to the basics. He cares a lot about match-fitness. He backs his players and is close to them. All of this would have made him a successful coach of a talented side with a few problems, but that was not to be, as far too many basic mistakes were made and there was no planning or research before or during any series. No point looking at what could have been achieved, they must look ahead, when the new coach steps in.

Most of your analysis made good sense, but I still don't see why Akmal is seen as being SO much better than Kaarthick. I think Akmal was better, yes, but not by such a huge margin. Kaarthick is only 19 and having only kept to TN and India A and that too for a short period of time, he has no real experience to fall back on. I think he has a lot of potential, as a keeper-batter and I think he looks more natural than either Patel or Dhoni. He did have a bad game at Mohali, but he was better at Kolkata and I thought he was good here in Bangalore. Sure, he left a few boundary byes but most of the time, it was because the batsmen were playing the sweep or the pull and with the batsmen standing outside the leg stump, he is easily unsighted. Akmal wasn't much flash in this game, I thought his keeping was rather poor, actually. He even missed a sitter off Kumble. Had India shown better application, that could have been considered a turning point. His batting looked good in both the innings at Kolkata and while I agree that he played a somewhat needless shot in the first innings here, u also have to understand that had he hit a couple of inches either side of the fielder, it would have been four. And he batted well today, until he got a good fast inswinging yorker, which are rare these days, as Shoaib plays sporadically and Brett Lee hardly gets a test. I don't know why you have to ridicule him so much. I still don't see how any keeper can be better than him. And before you bring up Samant, remember it is different from keeping to Powar and Bahutle and Kulkarni. Kumble and Harbhajan are 25 times better than them and that is a conservative estimate.




Secondly, Balaji has looked the best seamer on either side until the third day of this test. Sami produced a few brilliant spells here, but overall, Balaji has looked the best seamer on view this series. And being one of the guys who thinks he still needs to do a lot of work to play regularly for India, you cannot say I am a supporter of him. He gets good swing and he bowls good deliveries. Did u even see the ball that got Inzy? Because he is a swing bowler, he pitches the ball up and therefore gets driven on good tracks by good batters. But I think he is the best seamer in this series, although Sami made it close after his spells in this test, particularly.



Thirdly, the success of Younis Khan simply re-emphasizes my point about persisting with people who have good attitude and look natural. I think Kaarthick and Balaji both possess that. I think Pathan possesses that too and I think we need to keep faith in these guys. It is another matter with someone like Sourav, who just seems unwilling to learn. Sami is another one who is finally getting somewhere near what he can be as a bowler. He just needs to be consistent. I think the problem with both Balaji and Sami is that they are impatient as bowlers. Balaji bowls 3 or 4 beautiful away swingers and then he tries the inswinger and quite often, drifts down the leg side. Same with Sami, except that he bowls inswingers and then tries the outswinger. If they can manage to be more consistent, they can be better.




Overall, my analysis of the series would be that India, while they had the better side (Atleast on paper), they simply did not have enough confidence. The way Sachin and Sourav batted at Mohali was a disgrace, basically. ATleast, Dravid is always a slow scorer. These guys are supposed to be stroke players and although they cannot do a Sehwag, they could have atleast played the way they know best. And when Sachin finally got going, he got a horrible decision. And he seemed to have gotten really confused. He ended up attacking when there was no need to. AT Mohali, India were in the lead and quick runs would have made a difference. But here, we were already facing a huge deficit and I really don't know why he wanted to go over the infield. It is one thing to be positive and another to be aggressive and instead of being the former(which is always useful), he ended up being the latter. Sourav would have had a better chance of making runs at Mohali had he played the way he plays. IT was a flat track and Kaneria was never doing too much with the ball. Laxman looked okay but he is still not as fluent as he can be and only he can answer why. Kaarthick was good in patches, but I think he showed his potential and it is upto him to convert it to performances over the next year or so. I still don't see a better wk/batter in India than him, atleast for tests. I prefer Dhoni for ODIs though. And Bhajji's bowling controversy is threatening to ruin his career, coupled with Chris Broad. Again, I still don't see how he finds things suspicious that other referees don't. Kumble did well in one test, but struggled in the other two. Same with Dravid. Pathan was pathetic. Balaji was good overall, except in the second inning at Bangalore. It might have been worth a try to have Nehra in for Pathan at Bangalore.

 

[ReallyCrazy]

If India had played to win, IMO they would have gotten closer to the target if not even made the target (unlikely) and it would have been very good cricket. Why can't they play it like an ODI?

 

[PAKMAN]

Sami had set him up for that! I just said to my bro, I reckon he`ll bowl a short one soon! Gaaaaah! ASIM!

sometimes i begin to wonder if u really are australian keep it up buddy these pakistani palyers will keep bringing u joy lol

 

[SJS]

But one thing you need to remember...he may be "only" 31, most batters peak but he has played 16 years of international cricket.

I have thought about that. But that can only mean a kind of boredom or lack of entusiasm that may come over toime like say 16 years in this case. But Sachin hasnt shown that really. He seems to have the same yearning for the game and seems to get the same enjoyment out of it from the way he reacts while fielding.

The other peak, the one I was referring to, had more to do with age which means physical condition PLUS maturity (mental condition). I think he should be in faily good physical shape, eyesight and hand eye coordination should be good. Muscles are not going to build any more.

Thats what I meant.

Yes he could get bored of the game. Which, if true, may account for his lapse in concentration like the other day against the wide deliuvery from Afridi.

 

[honestbharani]

I have thought about that. But that can only mean a kind of boredom or lack of entusiasm that may come over toime like say 16 years in this case. But Sachin hasnt shown that really. He seems to have the same yearning for the game and seems to get the same enjoyment out of it from the way he reacts while fielding.

The other peak, the one I was referring to, had more to do with age which means physical condition PLUS maturity (mental condition). I think he should be in faily good physical shape, eyesight and hand eye coordination should be good. Muscles are not going to build any more.

Thats what I meant.

Yes he could get bored of the game. Which, if true, may account for his lapse in concentration like the other day against the wide deliuvery from Afridi.

No, I think it was Greg Chappell who has this theory about any player has only a certain amount of years in the game, no matter at what age he starts. It might be true. My dad started working for the Railways when he was 18 (my grandad had increased his age by 2, as was the trend in those days to enable them to go to work quickly) and I remember how bored he was towards the end of his tenure. He would take leave to clean and redecorate the house. And he was an Office Superintendent. That work is not too heavy anyways.

 

[nikhil1772]

Moving on to Mr. Ganguly,did anyone find it funny watching the aftermath of his wicket...I started laughing when he just stood there...why did he?

I mean when will he grow up...maybe he was thinking all possible ways how to redeem himself in front of all the spectators and Indian fans and win their sympathy in that short span of time...In the end as expected he got booed off.

 

[SJS]

No, I think it was Greg Chappell who has this theory about any player has only a certain amount of years in the game, no matter at what age he starts. It might be true. My dad started working for the Railways when he was 18 (my grandad had increased his age by 2, as was the trend in those days to enable them to go to work quickly) and I remember how bored he was towards the end of his tenure. He would take leave to clean and redecorate the house. And he was an Office Superintendent. That work is not too heavy anyways.

Yes but basically it is boredom or the drudgery of routine.

That is possible. Thats why i said, in Sachins case he doesnt appear to have lost his enthsiasm for the game. But its possible he has and is playing for reasons other than the joy the game gave him once.

If so, it would explain quite a few things.

 

[Pratters]

Moving on to Mr. Ganguly,did anyone find it funny watching the aftermath of his wicket...I started laughing when he just stood there...why did he?

Haha/

Ganguly doing a Courtney Walsh and Kumara Dharmasena imitation.

 

[SJS]

Moving on to Mr. Ganguly,did anyone find it funny watching the aftermath of his wicket...I started laughing when he just stood there...why did he?

I mean when will he grow up...maybe he was thinking all possible ways how to redeem himself in front of all the spectators and Indian fans and win their sympathy in that short span of time...In the end as expected he got booed off.

Oh comeon. Thats not fair. The fellow was so distraught at being bowled. He just stood their in shock. I really feel sorry for him Its not a great feeling to be brought down from a pedestal.

As for the crowd booing him. It just shows how fickle our sub continental crowds are. I just saw on the Times of India web site a link for sending hate mail to Ganguly.

It is nauseating. This is what we do to our sporting heroes when they are going through bad times. No wonder we are no great sporting nation.

 

[Pratters]

But its possible he has and is playing for reasons other than the joy the game gave him once.

If so, it would explain quite a few things.

I dont htink that would be the case as he would retire then. And what possible reasons could they be.

Its more to be with thinking too much where some lose shots come in and this a bit of inconsistency.

 

[Sudeep]

Oh comeon. Thats not fair. The fellow was so distraught at being bowled. He just stood their in shock. I really feel sorry for him Its not a great feeling to be brought down from a pedestal.

As for the crowd booing him. It just shows how fickle our sub continental crowds are. I just saw on the Times of India web site a link for sending hate mail to Ganguly.

It is nauseating. This is what we do to our sporting heroes when they are going through bad times. No wonder we are no great sporting nation.

Another top spot on post.

The same happened during the 2003 World Cup. Indian fans, excluding me , have a habit of over-reacting insanely.

 

[SJS]

I dont htink that would be the case as he would retire then. And what possible reasons could they be.

Its more to be with thinking too much where some lose shots come in and this a bit of inconsistency.

Yes. I would think so too.

He is too committed a cricketer to carry on if he lost interest.