**Official** India v Pakistan

[Adamc]

Apart from the obvious congratulations to certain batsmen on both sides, I think Danish Kaneria deserves to be commended on his performance. 19 wickets at around 31 is impressive given the way the batsmen have dominated the series, especially with the amount of work he has been asked to do (nearly 200 overs in 3 matches).

 

[PAKMAN]

Oh sorry, it did?

When they were Narrating the Hilites, he said he was unlucky to be given out..nevermind

unlucky in the sence that its very rare someone gettin out of the toe
anyway it doesnt matter the better team won

 

[Sehwag309]

Oh man, I got confused with that Laxman hitting the ground stuff, sorry..yeah offcourse Pathan was out

 

[PAKMAN]

Oh man, I got confused with that Laxman hitting the ground stuff, sorry..yeah offcourse Pathan was out

hota hai hota hai

 

[marc71178]

Ganguly should have come in at #3 but he has no guts.

Why should he have done when the best batsman in the World normally bats there?

He will probably lose this game on strategy, tactics and his dismal batting.

So it's all Ganguly's fault then?

 

[SJS]

I think the key problem was the initial attempt by India to chase the target. The same was said by Sehwag today and Laxman yesterday.

It was highly improbable that India would win on the 4th day considering the runs and the run rate ate which to get them and the history of chasing a score at this rate not being done before on a 5th day.

The players should have batted normally which was the right thing to do. But mentally if you try and chase the target, you will not bat normally and give your wicket away eventually.

And then the Indians went into too much of a defensive mode. Tendulkar being Tendulkar could cope with such a situation ably playing 98 balls. The others could when they switched their natural game.

A lot of credit should be given to Inzamam on a very intellegent declaration which fooled the Indians into believing maybe they can win.

I dont think so Pratyush.

Sehwag did not go hell for leather after the bowling in the morning. He was fairly subdued. Actually Gambhir outscored him. They were just playing the bowling on merit. Without chasing the target, if the later batsmen had also just played normally, they would not have perished to the close in fielders as they did.

I am reproducing below one of the overs played by Kumble. I could not go before this over though you can do that tomorrow from the archives at crickinfo. Why I am saying this is, that though this over may not represent the entire innings of Kumble, it stresses the point I am trying to make. Here it is...

82.1 Mohammad Sami to Kumble, no run, pushed to cover
82.2 Mohammad Sami to Kumble, FOUR, pitched up, driven on the back-foot
to the long-on boundary
82.3 Mohammad Sami to Kumble, no run, played down to mid-off
82.4 Mohammad Sami to Kumble, legbye: FOUR, drifting down the leg side,
kisses the shoe and races away to the fine leg fence
82.5 Mohammad Sami to Kumble, no run, bouncer on the middle and off
stump line, Kumble drops his wrists and avoids it well
82.6 Mohammad Sami to Kumble, (noball) two runs, pitched up, driven away
to deep midwicket
82.6 Mohammad Sami to Kumble, no run, good delivery to end the over,
played back to the bowler, Kumble survives, Sami picks it up and
throws it back, bit of frustration creeping in

Now look at what he has done. Forget the boundaries. Just by driving or pushing to covers or mid off or mid on, he is making the close in fielders redundant. Thats all that was required. Even if there were no boundaries in this over, the frustration that is indicated from Sami would have been there.

When the batsman goes forward in dead defense, even when it is a great batsman like Tendulkar, the close in fielders are always in with a chance. The odd slip, the odd extra movement, the odd bounce will mean they may get a chance for a bat pad. He may also allow the ball to hit his pads.

This is where Sachin went horribly horribly wrong. I am shocked that a cricketer with his experience played like this.

If he had played normallly, not hitting the bowling to all parts of the ground but playing normally as one does even outside the nets when knocking, it would have negated the close in foielders since it is not easy to keep your eyes open, let alone focussed, when the bat comes down from a backlift into a driving motion.

It was terrible tactics and I feel as if Sachin has personally let me down so little did I expect these tactics from him.

The moment he started doing this I told my wife, India has lost the match. Sachin will not last. But you dont need to be a sooth sayer to have said that.

I am not feeling bad because India lost but because of the way they caved in.

 

[marc71178]

I must say I'm not so sure Pakistan will get 10 wickets, but one must remember that the Indian tail has looked long so even if they only get 5 in the first 2 sessions they shouldn't lose faith.

I didn't expect ti happen exactly like that!

 

[marc71178]

And we all know Irfan Pathan can bat.

When's he actually going to show that he can in any form of the game then?

 

[PAKMAN]

Apart from the obvious congratulations to certain batsmen on both sides, I think Danish Kaneria deserves to be commended on his performance. 19 wickets at around 31 is impressive given the way the batsmen have dominated the series, especially with the amount of work he has been asked to do (nearly 200 overs in 3 matches).

True say and dont forget afridi he baught new life into the pakistani team

 

[marc71178]

I won't bother to mention their names, I just hope they show their faces again. This is coming from an Indian fan too. Although I would have loved India to win the series, its going to be fun seeing the reactions of those two.

Personally I'd prefer if they don't come back - that sort of poster only serves to wind people up and make wildly over the top predictions.

 

[marc71178]

I have to wonder why Razzaq opens the bowling though.

Because they went in with 2 seamers?

 

[nikhil1772]

When's he actually going to show that he can in any form of the game then?

I agree...Pathan is becoming complacent day by day taking his place for granted

 

[nikhil1772]

Wheres those guys who said it was gonna be 3-0 to india??????????????

I dunno but I sure was the one who said 2-0...but you know what for the first time in my life I m happy that Pakistan won,honestly...I mean I'd supported India all the way but didn't feel bad a bit tht India lost...

Actually after todays performance India doesn't even deserve to be critisized!!!

 

[Pratters]

I dont think so Pratyush.

Sehwag did not go hell for leather after the bowling in the morning. He was fairly subdued. Actually Gambhir outscored him. They were just playing the bowling on merit. Without chasing the target, if the later batsmen had also just played normally, they would not have perished to the close in fielders as they did.

I am reproducing below one of the overs played by Kumble. I could not go before this over though you can do that tomorrow from the archives at crickinfo. Why I am saying this is, that though this over may not represent the entire innings of Kumble, it stresses the point I am trying to make. Here it is...

82.1 Mohammad Sami to Kumble, no run, pushed to cover
82.2 Mohammad Sami to Kumble, FOUR, pitched up, driven on the back-foot
to the long-on boundary
82.3 Mohammad Sami to Kumble, no run, played down to mid-off
82.4 Mohammad Sami to Kumble, legbye: FOUR, drifting down the leg side,
kisses the shoe and races away to the fine leg fence
82.5 Mohammad Sami to Kumble, no run, bouncer on the middle and off
stump line, Kumble drops his wrists and avoids it well
82.6 Mohammad Sami to Kumble, (noball) two runs, pitched up, driven away
to deep midwicket
82.6 Mohammad Sami to Kumble, no run, good delivery to end the over,
played back to the bowler, Kumble survives, Sami picks it up and
throws it back, bit of frustration creeping in

Now look at what he has done. Forget the boundaries. Just by driving or pushing to covers or mid off or mid on, he is making the close in fielders redundant. Thats all that was required. Even if there were no boundaries in this over, the frustration that is indicated from Sami would have been there.

When the batsman goes forward in dead defense, even when it is a great batsman like Tendulkar, the close in fielders are always in with a chance. The odd slip, the odd extra movement, the odd bounce will mean they may get a chance for a bat pad. He may also allow the ball to hit his pads.

This is where Sachin went horribly horribly wrong. I am shocked that a cricketer with his experience played like this.

If he had played normallly, not hitting the bowling to all parts of the ground but playing normally as one does even outside the nets when knocking, it would have negated the close in foielders since it is not easy to keep your eyes open, let alone focussed, when the bat comes down from a backlift into a driving motion.

It was terrible tactics and I feel as if Sachin has personally let me down so little did I expect these tactics from him.

The moment he started doing this I told my wife, India has lost the match. Sachin will not last. But you dont need to be a sooth sayer to have said that.

I am not feeling bad because India lost but because of the way they caved in.

Okay I didnt fault Sehwag's approach to his batting. Only his and Laxman's statements that India would go for the win which was not necessary IMO. Sehwag played his natural game and credit to him.

I think Tendulkar is not to be blamed for the loss because of the way he batted. Or held responsible in any way. He last 140 minutes. Sehwag lasted 152 minutes.

It was Laxman, Ganguly who really tried to play unnatural games and were unsuccesful in it.

Tendulakr innovated, didnt bat as he normally does. He did lost almost two and half hours.

In the end it was just 5-6 overs needed for a draw. A bit more sensible batting from the Laxman, Ganguly and to an extent Karthik not trying to play defensively could have done it for India.

 

[nikhil1772]

I'd like to ask one more question...Who are those people who still think Sachin Tendulkar is one of the best batsman in the world (leave aside 'Best in the World')?

 

[Pratters]

I'd like to ask one more question...Who are those people who still think Sachin Tendulkar is one of the best batsman in the world (leave aside 'Best in the World')?

On form he isnt the best in the world.

He is still one of the best batsmen int he world though.

 

[SJS]

Okay I didnt fault Sehwag's approach to his batting. Only his and Laxman's statements that India would go for the win which was not necessary IMO. Sehwag played his natural game and credit to him.

I think Tendulkar is not to be blamed for the loss because of the way he batted. Or held responsible in any way. He last 140 minutes. Sehwag lasted 152 minutes.

It was Laxman, Ganguly who really tried to play unnatural games and were unsuccesful in it.

Tendulakr innovated, didnt bat as he normally does. He did lost almost two and half hours.

In the end it was just 5-6 overs needed for a draw. A bit more sensible batting from the Laxman, Ganguly and to an extent Karthik not trying to play defensively could have done it for India.

Again you are making the mistake of justifying Tendulkars batting by comapring to others.

I never said, Laxman, Gangly and Dravid did a good job. They were found wanting too. Of course Ganguly is in terrible form but it is from Dravid and tendulkar first and foremost, that one expected a playing out of time.

Whats so great about Sachin playing for 140 minutes ?? Was it such a great feat on a wicket that was still good for batting. Why should you think 140 minutes is some thing he should be commended for. On this wicket he should have played out a whole day or more.
How is it justified just because India fell only 5-6 overs short?

With a batting line up that includes Dravid and Tendulkar on a wicket where five hours ago Pakistan scored 260 runs in 50 overs, why should survival be such a difficult proposition ?

If this is the best that Sachin can do (and I dont agree that it is), then I have nothing more to say. I dont expect, Inzemam or Younis Khan to have been in any trouble whatsoever if they were faced with similar situation. And that is saying a lot for someone with 10000 test runs and 34 centuries.

Sorry Pratyush. Today, for the first time since I have been watching Sachin, I feel very badly let down.

 

[PAKMAN]

I'd like to ask one more question...Who are those people who still think Sachin Tendulkar is one of the best batsman in the world (leave aside 'Best in the World')?

of course he is one of the best batsman in the world .

 

[nikhil1772]

On form he isnt the best in the world.

He is still one of the best batsmen int he world though.

Not any more...not in the recent 3-4 years...I think he is tired of it,it shows on his face.

When commentators were talking about and praising about Tendulkar's concentration showing on his face today,I was laughing and said he is no way saving this match for India and the same happened...hell...even Kumble batted better!!!

He looks tired...he was at one time the best no doubt...but has to redeem himself and work hard to get back his past glory...
Quite frankly...he sucked today

 

[SJS]

I'd like to ask one more question...Who are those people who still think Sachin Tendulkar is one of the best batsman in the world (leave aside 'Best in the World')?

Oh he is a great player. A player like Tendulkar doesnt become a nobody because of an innings or two. As Zaheer said yesterday when some Indians were badmouthing him on TV, " You guys dont have a clue how blessed you are in having Tendulkar in your country. We feel pride because of him even in Pakistan. You people should think ten times before bringing his name to your lips lat alone badmouthing a master like him"

And I agree.

The fact that many on this forum may rubbish him is not going to make an iota of difference to what Sachin is and his place in history.

We need to learn to be able to cricticise him/ or praise for his individual performances without confusing it with his overall stature as a batsman over his career and his stature in world cricket (even today) and his place in history.

By doing otherwise we just show ourselves as the small fry that we are in comparison to giants like him and many others.

Those who feel good about themselves and their own extimation of themselves as students of the game by pulling down icons like Sachin, Warne, Sobers, Lara and so many others, only expose the smallness of their thinking and of their being.

Having said that, the fact is that Sachin seems to have lost that something which made him special and with every passing match, all of us are getting less and less confident that we will see him in those hues again.