**Official** India v Pakistan

[Pratters]

Not any more...not in the recent 3-4 years...I think he is tired of it,it shows on his face.

show me statistically he is not as good as he was like before.

And what shows on his face? That he does not want runs? He is some one who ALWAYS has had the hunger for runs.

When asked about the same question by Bhogle, he said he wouldnt be playing cricket had it occured.

 

[marc71178]

show me statistically he is not as good as he was like before.

The extremely high proportion of scores under 20 in the last couple of years?

 

[Pratters]

If this is the best that Sachin can do (and I dont agree that it is), then I have nothing more to say. I dont expect, Inzemam or Younis Khan to have been in any trouble whatsoever if they were faced with similar situation. And that is saying a lot for someone with 10000 test runs and 34 centuries.

Sorry Pratyush. Today, for the first time since I have been watching Sachin, I feel very badly let down.

I understand your sentiments of being let down.

I felt the same after a great inning by Tendulkar in Chennai when he finally was caught off the bowling of Saqlain in that memorable test. Saqlain was bowling so well but I believed Tendulakr should have seen India through and there was no reason to play the shot.

You felt some what the same today as you didnt agree with the manner he batted. I respect your opinion in the sense he could have stayed on if he batted normally.

But he may have seen a bit of some thing in the pitch and figured he wouldnt like to ake even the slightest of the risk. And defense would help the team cause better. Like a one day match, he totally blasted McGrath and saying later it was not preplanned but seeng the pitch he had figured sooner or later batsmen would get out. So atatck would be the best form of defense in that scenario.

I am not saying I can read his mind. I am saying he has a good cricket brain and must have had his reasons in batting the way he did. He batted more than two hours. He could havebatted two more hours and saved India the test match by himself which is what a batsmann, any batsman looks to do in such a situation which is bat till the end.

He failed in doing that and I cant prove that the way he batted wasnt the best. I just have enuogh faith in Tendulkar to trust he made a decision based on reason and usually his perceptions are right.

Also when you said with each inning you think Tendulkar is not as good as the past, I would just say have faith in the man.

Cheers.

 

[nikhil1772]

show me statistically he is not as good as he was like before.

And what shows on his face? That he does not want runs? He is some one who ALWAYS has had the hunger for runs.

When asked about the same question by Bhogle, he said he wouldnt be playing cricket had it occured.

What shows on his face you ask...he's tired!!! Off course he'd say tht when Bhogle asked tht ques or else he'd have lost his Cricketing God status in India.

Had he been hungry for runs...he wouldn't have played the way he did today...I thought he mite get to his 35th ton...then I thought he atleast mite score a half century...heck he din even reach 20 playing almost 90 balls.

 

[Pratters]

The extremely high proportion of scores under 20 in the last couple of years?

More innings over 150 which have proved more vital. More useful batsman.

 

[nikhil1772]

You felt some what the same today as you didnt agree with the manner he batted. I respect your opinion in the sense he could have stayed on if he batted normally.

How many times more in the future do we have to feel the same way?

 

[Pratters]

What shows on his face you ask...he's tired!!! Off course he'd say tht when Bhogle asked tht ques or else he'd have lost his Cricketing God status in India.

There is no reason to believe Tendulkar would lie.

Had he been hungry for runs...he wouldn't have played the way he did today...I thought he mite get to his 35th ton...then I thought he atleast mite score a half century...heck he din even reach 20 playing almost 90 balls.

If he tried to hit an agressive shot and got out, people would call him selfish. There is no end to cricket critcisim he has had to face.

Some one on television suggested the other day he plays only so that he gets advertisements.

I am not getting into more arguement with you on the man till you bring sensible arguements. If you sai because he has played defensively today, he is not hungry for runs and he is a liar, there is no reason to debate with you.

 

[Adamc]

This quote from Inzamam backs up SJS's theory perfectly I think:

"The moment they lost Sehwag, they went on the defensive and that surprised me. That helped us set attacking fields and pick up quick wickets. "

 

[Adamc]

Haha, classic Inzamam:

On his bowlers getting more from the pitch than the Indian bowlers

I thought they bowled better.

 

[nikhil1772]

Actually I was coming to that...in the last 3-4 years he has actually bettered his average by 3 or 4 runs per innings...But didn't anybody notice the way he was playing...slow and all the time looking tiresome...not many of those slashing cover drives or square cuts...just playing the paddle sweep all the time which got him most of his runs...

You mite argue that it doesn't matter how he gets his runs as long as he gets them...but I always loved Sachin not for his tons nor for his runs...but the way he played...the little kids wont be looking up to him the way I as a kid did.

And one more thing...statistics show nothing except some records worth noting...how many times did ST pull out India from jaws of defeat...never...how many times did he won a match almost single-handedly...not that I remember in the last 3-4 years...heck how many times did he save a match for India...today's could have been one

 

[FaaipDeOiad]

When's he actually going to show that he can in any form of the game then?

He has a test average in the 20s, and was probably India's best batsman after Sehwag and Patel against Australia last year. He's certainly a pretty decent batsman.

 

[honestbharani]

I don't think there is any doubt that Sachin and to an extent, the rest of the Indian batting line up, have started to bat more negatively ever since Sehwag has shown that he can get off to fliers consistently at the top of the order. Whether it is a team tactic, or just an individual decision, I do not know. All I know is that ever since our batters, esp. Laxman, have gone on the defensive, they have lost their touch and their form and now, I think we are only 3 or 4 amongst the top batting sides in the world. I juz hope they don't draw or lose to England at home. England defeating India in India on turning tracks would be the last straw for me as an Indian fan.

 

[Pratters]

Actually I was coming to that...in the last 3-4 years he has actually bettered his average by 3 or 4 runs per innings...But didn't anybody notice the way he was playing...slow and all the time looking tiresome...not many of those slashing cover drives or square cuts...just playing the paddle sweep all the time which got him most of his runs...

You mite argue that it doesn't matter how he gets his runs as long as he gets them...but I always loved Sachin not for his tons nor for his runs...but the way he played...the little kids wont be looking up to him the way I as a kid did.

A lot of people loved Sachin more for his agressive style. I always thought he gave his wicke away uselessly in the past when he could have scored much more runs. The higher average proves that. We may love players for different reasons but if they dont adhere to dhose reasons, there is no way you can criticise them because they play in a different way and yet ae more effective.

He is more effective now. The consistency is coming back as his scores in this series prove. The big runs were missing in this series but there was also a bad decision against him and a last inning where he played defensively.

And one more thing...statistics show nothing except some records worth noting...how many times did ST pull out India from jaws of defeat...never...how many times did he won a match almost single-handedly...not that I remember in the last 3-4 years...heck how many times did he save a match for India...today's could have been one

Well S.R.Tendulkar didnt win many test matches in the past because of his batting too. He came close like v/s Pakistan in Chennai. But he got out playing the risky shots you seemed to like so much in the past as well.

 

[SJS]

He failed in doing that and I cant prove that the way he batted wasnt the best. I just have enuogh faith in Tendulkar to trust he made a decision based on reason and usually his perceptions are right.

Also when you said with each inning you think Tendulkar is not as good as the past, I would just say have faith in the man.

Cheers.

Oh sure. I also think he is a very intelligent cricketer and I have great regard for his cricketing savvy. Maybe there was something he felt that we couldnt see. But we really couldnt.

Yes I still have faith and i am convinced that Sachins problems are more in the head than anywhere else. He has started thinking too much about how he is going to play each innings. He is not Sunil Gavaskar. When Sunny tried to be spontaeous, he would fail to deliver. sachin is the opposite. He is a natural cricketer and he must play his natural game. Again I am not talking of big hitting, nor do I expect his physical attributes not to change with age. I jsut feel he needs to relax and go in and play totally like say Laxman does (remember I did not say Sehwag).

In one dayers, I think the format does not allow him to think too much about do's and dont's so we see more of the Sachin we know still in the onme day game but in the test matches he is thinking too much about what he is going to do and if it doesnt work, he , probably thinks more about it and makes some more strategies. At least thats how it appears to me.

I dont think there is much wrong with his game otherwise.

 

[Pratters]

I don't think there is any doubt that Sachin and to an extent, the rest of the Indian batting line up, have started to bat more negatively ever since Sehwag has shown that he can get off to fliers consistently at the top of the order. Whether it is a team tactic, or just an individual decision, I do not know. All I know is that ever since our batters, esp. Laxman, have gone on the defensive, they have lost their touch and their form and now, I think we are only 3 or 4 amongst the top batting sides in the world. I juz hope they don't draw or lose to England at home. England defeating India in India on turning tracks would be the last straw for me as an Indian fan.

It was not right for Ganguly, Laxman and Karthik to go on the defensive.

 

[nikhil1772]

There is no reason to believe Tendulkar would lie.



If he tried to hit an agressive shot and got out, people would call him selfish. There is no end to cricket critcisim he has had to face.

Some one on television suggested the other day he plays only so that he gets advertisements.

I am not getting into more arguement with you on the man till you bring sensible arguements. If you sai because he has played defensively today, he is not hungry for runs and he is a liar, there is no reason to debate with you.

I have made many sensible arguments which you have failed to catch because of the fact that right now you are sentimental...

And the fact you say he has so much critisism to face...I beg to differ...pleeeease..he still is believed to be God-like in India...except for some ppl I too know call him selfish and all...I too hate to hear that,that is unacceptable...but lets face it...and you cant have any statistics for this...the way he is playing recently,you cant blame those people either

 

[Sudeep]

I'd like to ask one more question...Who are those people who still think Sachin Tendulkar is one of the best batsman in the world (leave aside 'Best in the World')?

I do.

 

[Behlol]

India lost by a big margin of 168 runs but a fighting effort from Anil Kumble

 

[Adamc]

Sachin's only 31 and will most likely come back as good as ever. One only has to look at the case of Brian Lara, who sunk to far lower depths than Sachin is at now, but came back to be as good as ever, if not better. His (Lara's) batting style has changed quite substantially, and there probably isn't as much magic about his batting now as there is before, but there is no doubt that he is a much more mature and responsible batsman and has benefitted from being so. Maybe that's what Sachin is at least trying to do, as Pratyush is hinting at.

 

[PAKMAN]

as they say attack is ths form of defence ,but they really need to think that y was kumble so easy out there what did he do right that the others ddnt