***Official*** India in Pakistan

[adharcric]

No, he is average. He is your main 'strike' bowler, so he should be compared to strike bowlers from other teams. Let's take a look:


England (Flintoff): Better
Sri Lanka (Vaas): Better
Australia (Lee/McGrath): Better
South Africa (Pollock/Ntini): Better
New Zealand (Bond): Better
West Indies: WORSE
Bangladesh: WORSE
Zimbabwe: WORSE

So out of 9 countries, five are better and three are worse. That places Pathan squarely in the category of average to below average.

Pathan has potential, so he can be one of the better bowlers on this list. But he isn't there yet.

Isn't that a bit like saying Malik is below average because Dravid, Ponting, Kallis, Lara and Sangakarra are better, and that's 5 better than him. You should compare seamers to seamers and spinners to spinners and openers to openers, but it shouldn't go beyond that. People earn certain positions in the team based on how well they perform.

 

[silentstriker]

Agit Agarkar apreciation society

Ajit Agarkar, as in the floppy earred, once-in-twenty-matches, Ajit Agarkar?

Or did Andrew Flintoff change his name to Ajir Agarkar?

 

[viktor]

Ajit Agarkar, as in the floppy earred, once-in-twenty-matches, Ajit Agarkar?

Or did Andrew Flintoff change his name to Ajir Agarkar?

I always thought his ears stood out straight...didn't flop you know....
But yeah, I think we are referring to the same person.

 

[adharcric]

For God's sake, show some respect and spell the legend's name correctly. It's not Agir or Ajir, the name is Ajit Agarkar.

Actually, I think he's a bunch of rubbish.

 

[kvemuri]

Kvemuri, just ignore them. They're what we call trolls, who just brag about Indian wins, insult Pakistanis and the Pakistani team for no reason other than to flame, and add nothing of any worth to the forum. Getting in a discussion with them is the equivalent to banging your head against a brick wall. Except the brick wall happens to be smarter.

That being said, very good post. I agree with it all except I think you were quite harsh on Harbhajan. He was low on confidence and unlucky during the test series, but really the wickets he was bowling on didn't offer him anything and in the previous ODIs against Sri Lanka he had kept it very tight whilst not taking too many wickets, and in the test series he did his job in the 3rd test, just like Kumble did in the 2nd test. Harbhajan has improved in the past 12 months, hopefully he'll get to show everyone that against England next month.

Thank you Jono, the reason I am not so thrilled with Harbhajan is this, the problem with Bhajji seems to be he performs on Indian wkts only, something that Kumble started out to be but later excelled in taking wkts on tracks such as in SA, Aus, Eng etc, Harbhajan has been with the team for nearly 5 years now, starting with the 2001 Laxman-Harbhajan Vs Aus series. Its time he starts excelling outside India too and to be frank with you Bhajji hasn't shown himself to be too dangerous on tracks that do not offer assistance (something Warne, Murali, Kumble and Saqlain at his best were able to do) forget taking wkts he hasn't been able to stem the flow of runs whether it be ODIs or tests.

For long time now I have been thinking that an older Kumble is a better and effective bowler in ODIs than Harbhajan, Kumble might have lost a step but his experience results in an economical spell forcing the batsmen to take chance against other bowlers, but with Bhajji himself leaking runs and not taking wkts the pressure (especially in ODIs) is never there on the batsmen and they usually end up picking apart the rest of the threadbare attack.

He has already played 117 ODIs if you look at his bowling analysis, at home his average economy rate is 3.5 - 4.0 which is great but outside India his economy rate jumps by a run to 4.5 - 5.0 thats worrisome for so called wkt taking bowler, if this trend continues in no short time opposing players will end up tackling him at home too. Bhajji has one thing on his side and thats time, I can only hope that he can pick himself up.

 

[kvemuri]

Who says that India were not able to defend a 328 run total?? India would have easily won the match had the match been completed, unfortunaly the play had to be stopped coz of bad light and Pak were declared winners on the basis of r/r.Had all the 50 overs ben played,Pak would have lost the match as they had only 3 wkts left and the asking rate was too high.India were indeed deprived of a deserving win.

In my opinion giving away 311 runs by the 47th over while chasing 328 is not being able to defend the total. More than that my point is Pakistan never looked trouble in their run chase, you need bowling that can trouble you to win matches, if you look at Basketball or NFL (American football), one concept is repeatedly preached that is "Defense wins championships", same is true in cricket.

Only in cricket that concept applies to two aspects of the game Bowling and Fielding, India cannot depend on its vaunted batting order to win games every time they go out to play. Thats asking too much of the batsmen and they are bound to fail some point of time. A terrific example of this is the 2003 world cup finals, before the finals whenever we struck early we won the game, but in finals our bowling sucked, not to take any credit away from Ponting and Martyn, resulting in a loss.

I am glad about one aspect though and thats fielding our ground fielding over the last 10/12 games has been simply superb (not close to Aussie yet but still an humungous improvement), now if we can turn around our bowling add couple of bowlers who can truly put the fear of god in the opposing batsmen, we can be what the Aussies are currently. As much as batting is important the bottom line is a team with the collective all round display of offense and defense will win championships.

 

[kvemuri]

18 runs in 18 balls is not very hard, especially with three wickets.

And even if they didn't...the fact that Pakistan came that close speaks volumes about our bowling.

India have the worst overseas bowling attack in cricket. Hell, even Bangladesh might be close:

England: Easily better
Australia: Easily better
Pakistan: Better
South Africa: Better
New Zealand: Better
Sri Lanka: Better
West Indies: Better

And those are simply LOCKS. I.E, you cannot argue that Indian bowling attack (in overseas conditions) is better than any of them.

/But at least its better than Zimbabwe

Thank you silentstriker, precisely my point. Hey even Heath Streak has been better than the vaunted Ajit Agarkar. Sign me up for the Ajit Agarkar Loathing Society (AALS)

 

[kvemuri]

Agree with most of the above except that Pathan is kind of better than just "average" dont you think ?

Yeah i agree he is better than average

 

[sheerindianspeed]

I can't believe that Gul too is out with injury!! Pak bowlers have a reputation of faking injuries especially when they are playing against India, anc considering the thrashing Gul got in the previous onedayers, it might be a case of being a *chicken*

Looks like Pak have already given up !

 

[sheerindianspeed]

An ideal bowling attack to go for 350 + runs

 

[marc71178]

Actually, I think he's a bunch of rubbish.

You join Jono in being cursed...

 

[kvemuri]

Unless the Pakistani top-order is below average ...

or unless we have been extremely lucky with Afridi, Inzy and Yousuf all posting averages less than that of 20 in the first 3 matches and all 3 failing at the same time what are the chances of THAT happening..one in a gazillion.

 

[sheerindianspeed]

or unless we have been extremely lucky with Afridi, Inzy and Yousuf all posting averages less than that of 20 in the first 3 matches and all 3 failing at the same time what are the chances of THAT happening..one in a gazillion.

Well Afridi is not playing!!
Inzi is going to strike form soon, but since Younis is being send down to bat at number six slot, where he's practically useless, chances of Younis doing much damage remains slim.

All in all India looks to be in a very good situation

 

[hindmaatujesalam]

India has successfully chased a total ELEVEN CONSECUTIVE times!!! I don't know whats the record of most no of successful chase, but i think this Indian team can create a new world record

I think If Inzi wins the toss , he will bat first as Pakistan don't like to chase since they are poor chasers.This practically means that Pakistan will be playing to India's advantage, i.e of having Indian chase the total, which Indians are best at.

Weather permitting, the remaing two one day match are up from grabs for team India.

 

[hindmaatujesalam]

I can't believe that Gul too is out with injury!! Pak bowlers have a reputation of faking injuries especially when they are playing against India, anc considering the thrashing Gul got in the previous onedayers, it might be a case of being a *chicken*

Looks like Pak have already given up !

Shocking!!

Now Pakistan are without their 3 main bowlers in Akhtar,Gul and Afridi, what r they gonna do???

I would go for following team,

Butt
Farhat
Malik
Inzi
Younis
Yousuf
Akmal
Razzak
Naveed
Asif
Sami

Super:Arshad or rao

 

[adharcric]

Shocking!!

Now Pakistan are without their 3 main bowlers in Akhtar,Gul and Afridi, what r they gonna do???

Stop making claims that suit your bias. Pakistan's best bowler in this tour has been Mohammad Asif, and he has done well even in the one-dayers .. it's just that the likes of Sachin and Yuvraj have played him very well. Losing a strike bowler (Akhtar), dangerous all-rounder who intimidates India (Afridi) and solid change-seamer (Gul) will definitely hurt Pakistan, but don't underestimate their team. Mohammad Sami is a dangerous ODI bowler if he turns it on, and Rana Naved would surely want to strike form soon. That said, I think India has a very strong chance as they dominated in the last match despite many missed chances and they'll surely try to avoid those this time around.

Pakistan
Butt, Farhat, Malik, Inzamam, Yousuf, Younis, Akmal, Razzaq, Rana, Sami, Asif, Supersub Arafat/Arshad

India
Gambhir, Tendulkar, Kaif, Dravid, Yuvraj, Raina, Dhoni, Pathan, Powar, RP Singh, Sreesanth, Supersub Agarkar

 

[Jono]

I can't believe that Gul too is out with injury!! Pak bowlers have a reputation of faking injuries especially when they are playing against India, anc considering the thrashing Gul got in the previous onedayers, it might be a case of being a *chicken*

Looks like Pak have already given up !

http://www.yourdictionary.com/ahd/i/i0022600.html

That link there sends you to a page where the word 'idiot' is defined. I'm not necessarily calling you an idiot, but then again you do meet the criteria.

 

[hindmaatujesalam]

Stop making claims that suit your bias. Pakistan's best bowler in this tour has been Mohammad Asif, and he has done well even in the one-dayers .. it's just that the likes of Sachin and Yuvraj have played him very well. Losing a strike bowler (Akhtar), dangerous all-rounder who intimidates India (Afridi) and solid change-seamer (Gul) will definitely hurt Pakistan, but don't underestimate their team. Mohammad Sami is a dangerous ODI bowler if he turns it on, and Rana Naved would surely want to strike form soon. That said, I think India has a very strong chance as they dominated in the last match despite many missed chances and they'll surely try to avoid those this time around.

Did i ever said that Asif isn't good??? But for ur kind info Asif is only allowed to bowl just 10 overs in OD match!!!! Just 10 out of 50!!

Sami is a proven failure, and has a TERRIBLE RECORD against India, there is a reason as to why he was dropped from the 16 man squad, so your cliam that his inclusion will do Pak a good is illfound!!. As for Rana naveed wanting to find form, i would say everyone would want to find form, their intentions are not in question, but their capabilities are certainly in question.

 

[hindmaatujesalam]

Sami is said to be running a fever!

If he doesn't play then Pak will be in deep trouble.

 

[adharcric]

Did i ever said that Asif isn't good??? But for ur kind info Asif is only allowed to bowl just 10 overs in OD match!!!! Just 10 out of 50!!

Sami is a proven failure, and has a TERRIBLE RECORD against India, there is a reason as to why he was dropped from the 16 man squad, so your cliam that his inclusion will do Pak a good is illfound!!. As for Rana naveed wanting to find form, i would say everyone would want to find form, their intentions are not in question, but their capabilities are certainly in question.

Of course it's the ability that matters. I rate Rana Naveed highly, but I won't mind if you're proved right and the Pakistani bowlers are shredded in this match as well.