***Official*** India in Pakistan

[sheerindianspeed]

Pakistan will now struglle even more against India without Shahid Afridi. I think Rana Naved should be replaced by Sami and Imran Farhat in for Afridi. Also Inzamam needs to think about changing his bowling around and use Shoaib Malik more.

Butt
Farhat
Malik
Inzi
Yousuf
Younis
Akmal
Razzak
Naveed
Asif
Gul

Sub:sami

I would say Pak should give one last chance to Naveed, as they don't have any quality pacers.Sami can come in as suber Sub, HOWEVER if both Sami and Rana are wayward then Pakistan might end up chasing 350+ runs against India

This batting lineup looks fine, but bowling looks extremely weak, i still think that Pakistan would have been better off with Rao Ifti instead of Sami

 

[wahindiawah]

Butt

Razzak
Naveed
Asif
Gul

Sub:sami

An ideal bowling attack to go for 350 + runs

 

[kvemuri]

Pakistan has 2 match winners in Akhtar and Danish, Danish also happen to be very expensive on most occasion and is not in the class of Kumble.

India on the other hand has 3 match winners in Kumble,Pathan and Harbhajan!!! India also has an emerging talent in RPS!!!

Also ,the bench strength of India is far stronger than that of Pakistan.Certainly India has a better attack both in terms of quality & variety!

Ahh..i am not sure which series you are seeing here, our bowling lets be totally honest lacks bite and venom, Pathan is an average bowler but he is young and has time to develop. Even then taking all things considered the amount of swing and variation with which Asif has been bowling (having only played a handful of matches) with quite an amount of bite. It took all of Dravid and SRT's class to take care of Asif and Gul, even these two greats were tremendously hassled by Asif and Gul.

If we had such a great variety and quality, as you say we do, the Karachi test should have been a stroll in the park for us, as we all know that the true assessment of a bowlers or a teams bowling quality is in test matches and not odis. Even a mercurial Glenn McGrath can get panned by a ramapaging Sanath Jayasuriya in ODIs on a given day. ODIs are batsmen paradise, 6 years ago 288 or 275 or even 250 were considered to be mamoth or winnable totals, today even 350 seems to be 200 of yonder years.

Also of the 3 named match winners Pathan was the only one who had a 5 wkt haul in the first innings of the 3rd test, Kumble at the end of his career still is better than Bhajji who seems to be going the great AA way, that is absolutely pathetic and ineffective. Lets call a spade a spade our bowling attack plain and simple is ineffective when compared with the likes of Aussies, Eng, Pakistan, NZL (with Shane Bond).

For India to win tests we need a genuine quick bowler or bowlers, who are then complimented with the likes of Pathan, RP Singh and Sreesanth. Also if we cannot defend a score of 328 runs talks volumes of our bowling capabilities, at some point of time or the other in ODIs when the batting fails and we end up posting a score less than 200 thats the time our bowling needs to step up and defend a small total. With the current bowling quality I have no hope of winning if we score anything less than 350 and even then i am not sure how much defendable that score is for Indian bowlers.

 

[kvemuri]

India could have wrap up the series today if that D/L thing wouldn't happen in the 1st ODI. They needed 18 off 18 balls with 3 wickets in hand. We had more chances of winning, but no worries as long as Sachin, Dravid, Yuvi and Dhoni bhai are in form; Pakistan won't do anything to India. I'm sure all the Pakistan fans in Pakistan know Dhoni pretty well and knows that he's go to blast Pak bowlers off in the remaining matches as well

This series remains interesting only coz of the D/l factor in the first match which deprived India of being the deserving winners, otherwise there seems to be a no contest between the two teams.India are rock solid in nearly all department of the games and are playing as a team, while Pakistan are pathetic and no match to Indian team.

4-1 to India

Hopefully the Indian players are not thinking on these same lines, remember an year ago the same pakistan team was down 2-0 and came back to beat us effectively 4 games straight. India has been very lucky that in the first 3 games of the series Inzy, Yousuf and Afridi didn't click, the averages of each 13.3, 6.3 and 18.something respectively tells the story.

Pakistan has a tall batting order, to be down 68/4 and 158/6 and yet post scores of 250+ is a testament of how deep Pakistan's batting order is, underestimate an opponent at your own peril, that too a cornered opponent. Pakistan under Woolmer have won the accolades of a team that doesn't give up and in general they are known to play their best when cornered, they are cornered now and India really have to come up with something special (they have been special in the past 2 games) to win this game at Multan.

Also as much losing Afridi hurts pakistan, in my opinion losing Viru hurts India more, as Imran Farhat can score fast and can replace Akmal at top to open with Butt, pushing Akmal down the order. India need Gambhir to place his utmost best to take the pressure off of the little master and give India a healthy start.

 

[nehrafan]

Pakistan has a tall batting order, to be down 68/4 and 158/6 and yet post scores of 250+ is a testament of how deep Pakistan's batting order is, underestimate an opponent at your own peril, that too a cornered opponent. Pakistan under Woolmer have won the accolades of a team that doesn't give up and in general they are known to play their best when cornered, they are cornered now and India really have to come up with something special (they have been special in the past 2 games) to win this game at Multan.

.

Huh.. Is that something to be proud of? agreed they do well to post 250 after being 4-5 down early on but why do they lose half a dozen wkts in quick succession in the first place???

Also as much losing Afridi hurts pakistan, in my opinion losing Viru hurts India more, as Imran Farhat can score fast and can replace Akmal at top to open with Butt, pushing Akmal down the order

Yes but India has other good batsmen that can do the job nicely.Sachin,Dravid,Yuvraj,kaif,Dhoni,Pathan are all match winners with the bat.Pak on other hand seems to be dependent on 2-3 individuals in Malik,Younis & Razzak.

Ahh..i am not sure which series you are seeing here, our bowling lets be totally honest lacks bite and venom, Pathan is an average bowler but he is young and has time to develop. Even then taking all things considered the amount of swing and variation with which Asif has been bowling (having only played a handful of matches) with quite an amount of bite. It took all of Dravid and SRT's class to take care of Asif and Gul, even these two greats were tremendously hassled by Asif and Gul.

Without Akhtar Pakistan's attack is impotent, something that Inzi himself admits.Asif is a faily good bowler, but Gul is wayward(although he occasionally bowl great deliveries)Razzak,Sami,Rana and Afridi are crap.

Pathan is certainly the *star pacer* of the two teams, and Rudra has done good job too.Santh was expensive but was very impressive (not his fault if 4 catches were dropped of his bowling), and the trio of Pathan,Rudra and Santh is certainly deadlier than that of Asif,gul and razzak.

There is a reason Pak are so frequestly 4-5 down for 50-60 runs.Even if there is a slightest bit of movement of Pathan's bowling, the Pak batsmen tremble as if they were playing in the cold of alaska

 

[Jono]

Ahh..i am not sure which series you are seeing here, our bowling lets be totally honest lacks bite and venom, Pathan is an average bowler but he is young and has time to develop. Even then taking all things considered the amount of swing and variation with which Asif has been bowling (having only played a handful of matches) with quite an amount of bite. It took all of Dravid and SRT's class to take care of Asif and Gul, even these two greats were tremendously hassled by Asif and Gul.

If we had such a great variety and quality, as you say we do, the Karachi test should have been a stroll in the park for us, as we all know that the true assessment of a bowlers or a teams bowling quality is in test matches and not odis. Even a mercurial Glenn McGrath can get panned by a ramapaging Sanath Jayasuriya in ODIs on a given day. ODIs are batsmen paradise, 6 years ago 288 or 275 or even 250 were considered to be mamoth or winnable totals, today even 350 seems to be 200 of yonder years.

Also of the 3 named match winners Pathan was the only one who had a 5 wkt haul in the first innings of the 3rd test, Kumble at the end of his career still is better than Bhajji who seems to be going the great AA way, that is absolutely pathetic and ineffective. Lets call a spade a spade our bowling attack plain and simple is ineffective when compared with the likes of Aussies, Eng, Pakistan, NZL (with Shane Bond).

For India to win tests we need a genuine quick bowler or bowlers, who are then complimented with the likes of Pathan, RP Singh and Sreesanth. Also if we cannot defend a score of 328 runs talks volumes of our bowling capabilities, at some point of time or the other in ODIs when the batting fails and we end up posting a score less than 200 thats the time our bowling needs to step up and defend a small total. With the current bowling quality I have no hope of winning if we score anything less than 350 and even then i am not sure how much defendable that score is for Indian bowlers.

Kvemuri, just ignore them. They're what we call trolls, who just brag about Indian wins, insult Pakistanis and the Pakistani team for no reason other than to flame, and add nothing of any worth to the forum. Getting in a discussion with them is the equivalent to banging your head against a brick wall. Except the brick wall happens to be smarter.

That being said, very good post. I agree with it all except I think you were quite harsh on Harbhajan. He was low on confidence and unlucky during the test series, but really the wickets he was bowling on didn't offer him anything and in the previous ODIs against Sri Lanka he had kept it very tight whilst not taking too many wickets, and in the test series he did his job in the 3rd test, just like Kumble did in the 2nd test. Harbhajan has improved in the past 12 months, hopefully he'll get to show everyone that against England next month.

 

[Jono]

What was the point of replacing Agarkar with Zaheer esp when AA was bowling well and definately is a better bat.

Apparently AA was injured (back I believe) hence Zaheer had to complete the 4 remaining overs AA had left.

Agarkar bowled very tight in that game. I think its better if he's not a new ball bowler, but rather used like they did in the 3rd ODI.

 

[nehrafan]

. Also if we cannot defend a score of 328 runs talks volumes of our bowling capabilities, at some point of time or the other in ODIs when the batting fails and we end up posting a score less than 200 thats the time our bowling needs to step up and defend a small total. With the current bowling quality I have no hope of winning if we score anything less than 350 and even then i am not sure how much defendable that score is for Indian bowlers.

Who says that India were not able to defend a 328 run total?? India would have easily won the match had the match been completed, unfortunaly the play had to be stopped coz of bad light and Pak were declared winners on the basis of r/r.Had all the 50 overs ben played,Pak would have lost the match as they had only 3 wkts left and the asking rate was too high.India were indeed deprived of a deserving win.

 

[silentstriker]

Who says that India were not able to defend a 328 run total?? India would have easily won the match had the match been completed, unfortunaly the play had to be stopped coz of bad light and Pak were declared winners on the basis of r/r.Had all the 50 overs ben played,Pak would have lost the match as they had only 3 wkts left and the asking rate was too high.India were indeed deprived of a deserving win.

18 runs in 18 balls is not very hard, especially with three wickets.

And even if they didn't...the fact that Pakistan came that close speaks volumes about our bowling.

India have the worst overseas bowling attack in cricket. Hell, even Bangladesh might be close:

England: Easily better
Australia: Easily better
Pakistan: Better
South Africa: Better
New Zealand: Better
Sri Lanka: Better
West Indies: Better

And those are simply LOCKS. I.E, you cannot argue that Indian bowling attack (in overseas conditions) is better than any of them.

/But at least its better than Zimbabwe

 

[sirjeremy11]

18 runs in 18 balls is not very hard, especially with three wickets.

QUOTE]

Gotta agree, think Pakistan would have got them.

 

[Jono]

I reckon Pakistan would have got there too, but Rana was in and he was struggling against Kartik. The issue is irrelevant though, India have come back well since then and have batted beautifully against Pakistan's bowling.

Regarding the first ODI though, firstly India should have put on more than 328 considering they were 4/300. That collapse proved costly. Secondly, Pakistan should have got there a lot easier than with 3 wickets remaining and requiring a run-a-ball off the last 3 overs. In the end, both teams stuffed up, it just fell in favour of Pakistan. India didn't bowl well that day though, that's for sure.

 

[nehrafan]

18 runs in 18 balls is not very hard, especially with three wickets.

At that time Rana was on crease with younis and Rana was clearly struggling (as always) , India certainly had more chance of winning the game had it gone to distance!

India have the worst overseas bowling attack in cricket. Hell, even Bangladesh might be close:

England: Easily better
Australia: Easily better
Pakistan: Better
South Africa: Better
New Zealand: Better
Sri Lanka: Better
West Indies: Better

And those are simply LOCKS. I.E, you cannot argue that Indian bowling attack (in overseas conditions) is better than any of them.

Indian bowlers managed to win a match for win a match for India against the best team in world in Australia in Australia thereby drawing the series, on the other hand Pakistan bowlers got pasted every time they toured Australia and the result of the series was always 3-0 in favor of Australia!!!.

Whether its subcontnent on overseas, Indian bowling attack is certainly better than that of Pakistan.Pakistan just depend on Akhtar to get wkts for them, others in Sami,rana,Razzak etc are proven failures at test level.

 

[honestbharani]

Oh great, just what we need. Another one.

I would LOVE to know what exactly was wrong with that post that you have replied to, Barney...... He may not have gotten the sarcasm, but it is kinda hard without smileys for newer guys here.

 

[honestbharani]

Great Win by India. Despite losing the first ODI India have dominated the series so far. Indian won without Sehwag and Dravid's poor use of Supersub. What was the point of replacing Agarkar with Zaheer esp when AA was bowling well and definately is a better bat.

AA hurt his back, Sanz......


Damn you, doubters..... The Almighty NEVER fails consistently. He was the best Indian bowler on view that day.

 

[Arumpnoo]

Sami and Rana are both strike bowlers and they will come back in form for Pakistan. It may not be this series but there is no doubt about their potiential or work ethic.

 

[Sanz]

Thanks man..Couldn't follow the game, was stuck in 3 feet snow in NYC.

 

[honestbharani]

Good win for India. Pak played better than on Saturday but was still found out because they had the wrong batting order. Imran was spot on when he said that the best players should bat at the top. There is no need to stack the top with your best batters, but mayeb they should do what India did very well. Earlier, it used to be


Sourav
Sachin
Rahul


That was our top three before Sourav took over. After that, he split up the BIG 3, so that it became


Sourav/Sachin
Sehwag
Sourav/Sachin
another batter
Rahul
Yuvi
...



That way, they still had a couple of their best batters in the top 3 and there was one in the middle order to handle chases and the crisis situations. Pak should try something similar. What about opening with YOunis Khan with INzy at 3 and Mo Yo at 5?

 

[Anil]

makes me happy to see sachin back among the runs....india certainly look a better one day side under chappell...now if only they can ride on that confidence and win a couple of important test series...having said that, this series is far from over yet.....

 

[Jono]

Good win for India. Pak played better than on Saturday but was still found out because they had the wrong batting order. Imran was spot on when he said that the best players should bat at the top. There is no need to stack the top with your best batters, but mayeb they should do what India did very well. Earlier, it used to be


Sourav
Sachin
Rahul


That was our top three before Sourav took over. After that, he split up the BIG 3, so that it became


Sourav/Sachin
Sehwag
Sourav/Sachin
another batter
Rahul
Yuvi
...



That way, they still had a couple of their best batters in the top 3 and there was one in the middle order to handle chases and the crisis situations. Pak should try something similar. What about opening with YOunis Khan with INzy at 3 and Mo Yo at 5?

Younis Khan is useless down the order, yet at the same time having Inzy come out at 5 or 6 is a waste of his great talents. I like the idea of Younis opening, because he has a great technique and with Salman Butt on the other end the run rate will be high anyway. On top of that Younis isn't exactly slouch in terms of his strike rate, which is around 75. He did well in this match (http://aus.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2005-06/ENG_IN_PAK/SCORECARDS/ENG_PAK_ODI1_10DEC2005.html) at 3 when the big chase was on and had a terrific partnership with Salman Butt. I think Akmal can bat lower in the order, he looks a very versatile player despite him being also a technically correct player. I don't think the same can be said about Younis. My batting order for the top 8 of Pakistan would look like this:

Salman
Younis
Shoaib Malik (He's scoring the runs and doing the job, I don't really think he needs to be moved)
Inzy
Yousuf
Akmal
Afridi
Razzaq

Obviously they can be flexible if necessary, but I think its a strong unit.

 

[duffer]

For those who've seen the series, how well have Akmal and Dhoni kept wickets in the Tests and ODI's so far?