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*Official* English Football Season 2005-06

marc71178

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Scaly piscine said:
Who gives a stuff if you're consistently knocked out at KO stage in the CL and consistently finish 2nd and 3rd in the Premiership? The times they've actually won the league and done anything in the CL are exceptions - so how is being 'the most consistent manager' an asset in these circumstances?
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So when did they last finish as low as 3rd then?

That'll be about 1997 I believe.

And how come Ferguson (1 KO tie win in 7 seasons) doesn't get bagged by you, is it because he isn't French?
 
marc71178

marc71178

Eyes not spreadsheets
Tom Halsey said:
Hang on, what has he done? Buying players is mainly down to his scouts, and they're not very good anyway, and without extra signings they won't compete next year. They still can't play away from home against good sides.
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So the results in the Bernabau and the Delle Alpi didn't happen then?
 
Loony BoB

Loony BoB

International Captain
Tom Halsey said:
2nds are still nothing special for a club like Arsenal.
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Going by those kind of standards, there can only be one good manager in the country every season. 2nds and 3rds can be okay depending on the situation. Example: 2nd isn't bad behind the current Chelsea team.
 
T

Tom Halsey

International Coach
Loony BoB said:
Going by those kind of standards, there can only be one good manager in the country every season. 2nds and 3rds can be okay depending on the situation. Example: 2nd isn't bad behind the current Chelsea team.
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No, because 2nd would be extremely good for a club like Charlton or someone. But 2nd isn't anything to write home about for a club like Arsenal (and Chelsea have only been around for 2 seasons in the form that they are, before that Arsenal were still 2nd most of the time).
 
Loony BoB

Loony BoB

International Captain
Okay, so what you're saying is that it's impossible for both Arsen and Fergie to BOTH be good managers, because whoever doesn't do better than the other is clearly not good enough...?
 
Jamee999

Jamee999

Hall of Fame Member
Tom Halsey said:
Madrid and Juve were both **** on the night.
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Of course, Juv"leading Serie A by more than Chelsea lead the prem by"entus and Real "Los Galacticos" Madrid are ****.
 
Barney Rubble

Barney Rubble

International Coach
Jamee999 said:
Of course, Juv"leading Serie A by more than Chelsea lead the prem by"entus and Real "Los Galacticos" Madrid are ****.
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Real really aren't that good, especially not in Europe. Just thought I'd add my two cents. :p
 
BoyBrumby

BoyBrumby

Englishman
Tom Halsey said:
2nds are still nothing special for a club like Arsenal.
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Yes it is, of course it is. Arsenal aren't inherently a huge club. We don't have the support or turnover of Man U or Liverpool.

Put it this way: in the post war years before Wenger's arrival we finished in the top two precisely 6 times (1948, 1953, 1971, 1973, 1989 & 1991). Six times in 50 years that is. Wenger had made us punch way above our weight.
 
T

Tom Halsey

International Coach
BoyBrumby said:
Yes it is, of course it is. Arsenal aren't inherently a huge club. We don't have the support or turnover of Man U or Liverpool.
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Yes, but you were 3rd or 4th when Wenger took over (just been watching Sky's Premiership Years) so he's only advanced you a place or two. That's why I don't think it's anything to write home about.
 
BoyBrumby

BoyBrumby

Englishman
Tom Halsey said:
Yes, but you were 3rd or 4th when Wenger took over (just been watching Sky's Premiership Years) so he's only advanced you a place or two. That's why I don't think it's anything to write home about.
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Not actually true, under Rioch we'd finished 5th in 1996. We didn't trouble the top 3 in the Prem til Wenger took over.
 
T

Tom Halsey

International Coach
Loony BoB said:
Okay, so what you're saying is that it's impossible for both Arsen and Fergie to BOTH be good managers, because whoever doesn't do better than the other is clearly not good enough...?
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Well if both of them were also doing extremely well in Europe then I may change my mind, because that would show that the team which is 2nd is only 2nd because the team that is 1st is incredibly good.

However, that is not the case, except for Arsenal this season (and I maintain that both of their knockout ties were partially due to the other side not performing, even if Arsenal did play well).

And I don't think either of them are particularly good managers anymore (though Ferguson used to be a great).
 
T

Tom Halsey

International Coach
BoyBrumby said:
Not actually true, under Rioch we'd finished 5th in 1996. We didn't trouble the top 3 in the Prem til Wenger took over.
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5th, 4th. Meh.

Where were you in the Prem in 96/97 when Wenger took over? I remember you being top at some point during that season in November sometime, so they must have been up there.
 
BoyBrumby

BoyBrumby

Englishman
Tom Halsey said:
5th, 4th. Meh.

Where were you in the Prem in 96/97 when Wenger took over? I remember you being top at some point during that season in November sometime, so they must have been up there.
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Doesn't prove anything tho. Newcastle were 12 points clear in 1996. It's where a club finishes that matters.
 
Magrat Garlick

Magrat Garlick

Rather Mad Witch
Tom Halsey said:
Yes, but you were 3rd or 4th when Wenger took over (just been watching Sky's Premiership Years) so he's only advanced you a place or two. That's why I don't think it's anything to write home about.
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1990/91: Arsenal 1st
1991/92: Arsenal 4th (10 points off Man Utd)
1992/93: Arsenal 10th (28 points off Man Utd)
1993/94: Arsenal 4th (21 points off Man Utd)
1994/95: Arsenal 12th (38 points off Man Utd)
1995/96: Arsenal 5th (19 points off Man Utd, two points ahead of 9th place)

Wenger era:
1996/97: Arsenal 3rd (7 points off Man Utd)
1997/98: Arsenal 1st
1998/99: Arsenal 2nd (1 point off Man Utd)
1999/00: Arsenal 2nd (18 points off Man Utd)
2000/01: Arsenal 2nd (10 points off Man Utd)
2001/02: Arsenal 1st
2002/03: Arsenal 2nd (5 points off Man Utd)
2003/04: Arsenal 1st (first team unbeaten)
2004/05: Arsenal 2nd (12 points off Chelsea)
2005/06: Arsenal 5th (24 points off Chelsea)

Yes, he inherited Bergkamp and Adams from Rioch, but that record is much, much better than Arsenal's had in any era before (source: Fever Pitch).
 
T

Tom Halsey

International Coach
marc71178 said:
9 seasons never finishing out of the top 2 is not bad, and not matched by anyone else.
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It also doesn't come close to matching Ferguson's achievements at his peak.

And finishing place alone does not determine how good a manager is, because, as I've said, Wenger inherited a very good team, whereas Ferguson inherited a team in mid-table mediocrity.

Then there are other managers who are far better than Wenger but they're managing clubs who, when they took over, were very poor and they haven't quite got them up to the very top yet.
 
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