*Official* England in South Africa Thread

[badgerhair]

I guess there are bigger issues than solely cricket to consider. &, of course as Mike (badgerhair) points out it could be a cricketing decision.

Wouldn't have been my cricketing decision, mind....

What if this were a dead rubber game? Would you then have a bias towards giving the new guy another chance, perhaps?

I'll declare that I have been very unimpressed with van Jaarsveld in top-level cricket (I've seen him murder an attack in the Lancashire League, but that's not really comparable), and I'd be disappointed if that was the best I could find for the medium to long term. In his nine Tests up till now, he hasn't made a strong case for himself - though he hasn't made an idiot of himself either.

So my point is that it's basically a 50-50 call, and the selectors have made clear that 50-50 calls will be resolved in favour of the previously disadvantaged, for broader social reasons. If you want to get grumpy about it, then race is keeping Amla in the side. The other way of putting it is that van Jaarsveld hasn't done enough to prevent Amla getting a proper chance.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[Scaly piscine]

You should only be picking your team on cricketing reasons, race should not come into it. I would think it's patronising to the players that get picked because of their race and patronising to the future players out there who they're trying to encourage by putting players of their race in the team who aren't good enough. What good is going to come from Tsolekile and Amla failing and a weakened SA side?

 

[PY]

I think Mike has made a good point about the retention of players after they've stuffed up in one Test match.

Barry Richards (of whom I'm a massive fan both as commentator and his perceived personality mixed in with cricketing talent but without bitterness that he missed out on having a full Test career) commented that Amla has had debut>>dropped>>picked and it would have been harsh to dump him again.

Having said that, as an England fan I'm pretty happy he's playing.

 

[Pratters]

What partnership was this? :S

If it goes to 2-0, I don't see that they have a way back in, momentum and all that.

I saw the scores and seeing they had huge runs to their names, thought they had the partnership. Didnt get to see much of the match.

And the match did end in a draw. So South Africa is still very much in the series.

 

[tooextracool]

England didn't ever look massively like they were gonna get anyone out in 2nd innings, but they still got 8 out in a little over 80 overs. .

and with that strike rate it would take 20 overs to get the last 2.

Look at the strike rates, spinners inevitably take longer to get someone out..

remember the pitch wasnt as flat as this one, in fact there was turn. warne got 8 wickets and vettori had 4.

Ntini always bats like a headless chicken, he ain't gonna change that.

just like most tailenders there has also been times when hes hung around, most notably for his 16* in pakistan.
how can you say that ntini always bats like that based on one over where if you ask me anyone would try to hammer that bowling in fading light.

 

[Scaly piscine]

I can't think of any sane person who would try and hammer bowling when there's gonna be bad light given to the batsmen at any moment and all you have to do is survive for a few minutes.

 

[Tom Halsey]

and with that strike rate it would take 20 overs to get the last 2.

Completely ignoring the fact that tailenders are much worse than top-order players, so that means nothing.

 

[Langeveldt]

Having said that, as an England fan I'm pretty happy he's playing.

Enough said...

 

[tooextracool]

Not because I'm a great fan of picking rubbish players like Adams, but because of the huge signal it sent to every aspiring English cricketer. "You won't be dropped just because you made a mistake or two first time out. When we pick you, you'll get a reasonable run of a few games in which to show what you can do." The subsequent ignoral of Adams sent the further message that if you do get a decent chance and you screw it up, you can just about forget about ever being called up again.

i agree with the first part, not quite too sure about the 2nd. certain players might not quite be upto the mark when they are first picked despite good domestic averages, but they might just continue to improve at the domestic level and then step up to the level of test class. all im saying is that england continued to ignore players who were performing consistently at the domestic level but failed miserably at the test level in their 5 tests, then they might just have not got flintoff.

 

[Tom Halsey]

how can you say that ntini always bats like that based on one over where if you ask me anyone would try to hammer that bowling in fading light.

Erm, I don't think so in the circumstances, somehow.

 

[tooextracool]

I can't think of any sane person who would try and hammer bowling when there's gonna be bad light given to the batsmen at any moment and all you have to do is survive for a few minutes.

or perhaps he couldnt see the ball and clearly enough and decided to swing his bat at the ball whenever he saw it?

 

[Langeveldt]

I can't think of any sane person who would try and hammer bowling when there's gonna be bad light given to the batsmen at any moment and all you have to do is survive for a few minutes.

Makhaya and sanity don't go.. I once saw him running around for ages behind the stands, chasing people like a little kid.. he definitely has a screw loose..

Anyway, he could have prodded around and been cleaned up second ball, followed by Steyn..

 

[Pratters]

Makhaya and sanity don't go.. I once saw him running around for ages behind the stands, chasing people like a little kid.. he definitely has a screw loose..

Ntini started dancing a bit in the stands in Calcutta too. Weird guy!

 

[Langeveldt]

Ntini started dancing a bit in the stands in Calcutta too. Weird guy!

Yeah, and in Taunton he was up on the highest bit of the pavilion (on the gangtry with the TV cameras) screaming orders to all directions (including out of the ground) in Xhosa.. I reckon you could have heard him pretty much anywhere in town that day

 

[tooextracool]

Erm, I don't think so in the circumstances, somehow.

i myself find it hard to understand why he was trying to slog the ball all over the place in the situation. i do however know that he can play a grafting innings occasionally as the 16* in pakistan would show, but the only explanations i could come up with was that the bowling was really bad or the light wasnt bright enough.

 

[tooextracool]

Completely ignoring the fact that tailenders are much worse than top-order players, so that means nothing.

there was a top order player at the other end i might add. if he was sensible enough, hed keep the strike for most of those overs.

 

[Tom Halsey]

or perhaps he couldnt see the ball and clearly enough and decided to swing his bat at the ball whenever he saw it?

Or perhaps he could still have treid his best to survive knowing that they'd be offered the light at any time?

 

[Tom Halsey]

there was a top order player at the other end i might add. if he was sensible enough, hed keep the strike for most of those overs.

Still, the way Ntini was playing and the No. 11 to come, there is no way they'd have lasted 20 overs.

 

[tooextracool]

Or perhaps he could still have treid his best to survive knowing that they'd be offered the light at any time?

when its hard to see the ball its always more likely that when you eventually see the ball coming towards you, you will try to slog it, especially if you are a tailender and dont have much of a defense anyways.

 

[tooextracool]

Still, the way Ntini was playing and the No. 11 to come, there is no way they'd have lasted 20 overs.

they only needed to surive 15. we've seen several situations when teams have done that before. while i'll give you that it wasnt likely, i wouldnt put it down as impossible.