*Official* England in South Africa Thread

[BoyBrumby]

edit:ok bell isnt in the side but personally id even pick anderson over collingwood.

I seem to recall it being discussed here at length after the squad was announced, but Collingwood was a bit of an odd selection for the test touring party.

I guess he's nominally there as "cover" (ha!) for Freddie (god forbid & touch wood that nothing should befall the big fella). However, Bell should've gone on the grounds his batting is far better, his bowling at least as good (& potentially better) & his fielding isn't embarrassed by comparison to Collingwood's.

 

[Mr Casson]

I guess that's a purely aesthetic call.

How is it an aesthetic call?! Langeveldt explained his reasons and they weren't "So the players look good"!

 

[Scaly piscine]

I definitely think England would pick Batty if Giles can't play, the other bowlers will be a little jaded anyway and they won't want to go in with 4 front line bowlers and then make up maybe 10 overs a day with part-time stuff. I would like to see Vaughan bowl more anyway, but it's unlikely to happen - he should have bowled some of Giles' overs just before or after tea on the last day in this last Test (they should have seen the clouds coming and brought Hoggard & Harmison on earlier as well).

 

[Scaly piscine]

I personally think Collingwood is in as a specialist sub-fielder - it will definitely save the odd run here and there and maybe earn the odd extra wicket so it's as worthwhile having him as it is having a backup player who doesn't play at all.

 

[Mr Casson]

Has anyone considered putting some money on Strauss being the first (?) player to score a hundred on his debut against four countries? Bangladesh makes it mighty tempting... Marc might be interested in that.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Has anyone considered putting some money on Strauss being the first (?) player to score a hundred on his debut against four countries? Bangladesh makes it mighty tempting... Marc might be interested in that.

I think he's already the first to do it on debut against 3 nations (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong).

Interesting bet, but with Bangladesh at such any early stage in their test development (he said diplomatically) I doubt the odds'd be very long!

 

[badgerhair]

I seem to recall it being discussed here at length after the squad was announced, but Collingwood was a bit of an odd selection for the test touring party.

I guess he's nominally there as "cover" (ha!) for Freddie (god forbid & touch wood that nothing should befall the big fella). However, Bell should've gone on the grounds his batting is far better, his bowling at least as good (& potentially better) & his fielding isn't embarrassed by comparison to Collingwood's.

Bell is in the one-day squad, and will presumably get to play - as of course will Collingwood.

The question for the selectors was who would be useful to have around during the Test series, given that they were most unlikely to play. Key can have his technique worked on, whereas there isn't all that much they can teach Bell, who is simply in need of playing experience which he wouldn't be getting. Collingwood has already proved that he can be a good tourist, as he fulfilled the same role in WI - and he presumably already accepts his non-playing staus, whereas Bell might be chafing at not being in the team.

Collingwood was probably seen to be the guy who could do the best sixteenth man job, given that the situation would in fact already be pretty desperate if he were actually called on to play.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[Mr Casson]

What do Ray Jennings and pets have in common?

They're both a backward step.

 

[marc71178]

collingwoods bowling is was and will forever be rubbish so i cant believe that anyone would use that as the basis for his selection.

Where have I used his bowling as the basis for selecting him?

personally id even pick anderson over collingwood.

Leaving us with 5 seamers and a long tail.

 

[tooextracool]

Where have I used his bowling as the basis for selecting him?.

well there is obviously a better batter in the side....

Leaving us with 5 seamers and a long tail.

the addition of collingwood doesnt help the seamers bit, and if we have a long tail, we're better off picking key or even batty.

 

[marc71178]

If Giles is missing, and the wicket doesn't traditionally help spin, I see no point in putting Batty in, seeing as he's not actually been much cop when it has helped him.

Therefore we look for a batsman which makes our line-up longer.

Key is a top order batsman, and the top 5 is pretty much set in stone - Butcher may not be everyone's cup of tea, but he has done it time and time again in the past few years, so the selectors will keep the faith. I don't think Key would be an option for number 6 really, whereas Collingwood is used to batting in that position.

Add in the fact that we'd need some bowling cover for the overs GIles would've bowled, and Collingwood (along with the skipper) can certainly provide that better than Key can (in fact I'd rate him a better option with the ball than Ian Bell, who isn't actually used that often by Warwickshire) - and you add in his superb fielding.

Therefore I would not be unhappy (assuming that Giles isn't fully fit) if they went with the following line-up:

Trescothick
Strauss
Butcher
Vaughan
Thorpe
Collingwood
Flintoff
Jones
Hoggard
Jones / Anderson
Harmison

 

[PY]

While I don't mind the looks of that line-up, I can't see Freddie being dropped from 6 to be honest as they won't want to change things about. IMO it's been a key to England's success that things haven't been fiddled around with in that middle order and they've got used to certain partnerships and suchlike.

Having said that, having Collingwood at 7 doesn't appeal to me much though either. I'm in full agreement of the plan to use Collingwood rather than Batty as I said to a mate yesterday because of Batty's lack of bowling practice and general lack of talent.

 

[Tom Halsey]

err i was referring to the quality of bowling offered by harmison....

He was still never going to stay around that long.

 

[wpdavid]

How is it an aesthetic call?! Langeveldt explained his reasons and they weren't "So the players look good"!

I was saying that mine was, as my second sentence made clear. Or at least I thought so at the time .

 

[wpdavid]

Apparently Giles is fit for Cape Town, as is Pollock. Van Jaarsveldt has been released from the SA squad as Dippenaar is fit.

 

[BoyBrumby]

Apparently Giles is fit for Cape Town, as is Pollock. Van Jaarsveldt has been released from the SA squad as Dippenaar is fit.

& Amla retained then, presumably?!?!

I smell the pungent whiff of a quota selection...

 

[SpaceMonkey]

& Amla retained then, presumably?!?!

I smell the pungent whiff of a quota selection...

Wont see England complaining that Amla is there

 

[Marcus]

Bishop's Hull isn't a very exciting place is it!

hey stop the jokes.....its not such a bad place.....although drugs and drinking are the highlights of the village......Up the England

 

[Link]

Wont see England complaining that Amla is there

cant judge a player on one test. he averages 80 odd in domestic cricket this year.

 

[Tom Halsey]

He hasn NOT got the technique to succeed at Test level. You don't need to see 2 balls to decide that.