***Official*** England in Pakistan

[social]

On about the whole team not their 3 best batsmen. If India generally are so good at playing quicks, combined with them being the best players of spin then surely their batting would be light years ahead of everyone else, but it simply isn't.

With India, it's common knowledge that they are a vastly different team at home and not just the batting.

For example, compare and contrast Kumble and Harbi's home records to away records.

 

[Pratters]

So you're not English then.

Well his being english or not would be decided by his nationality.

 

[social]

Geraint talking to Cricinfo - "This morning, Loudon bowled Marcus Trescothick with what may or may not have been that mysterious doosra"

Or it might have been an arm ball or it might have hit a rock or it may not have turned or it may never have happened.

Hopefully, for England's sake, Loudon turns out to be the real deal but until it's performed under match conditions, its largely irrelevant.

Also, interesting take on Jone's position - "only a devastating loss of form" could see him lose his place. Obviously not being able to catch is Jones in acceptable form.

 

[Dasa]

So you're not English then.

You either support England or you don't...

Oh geez... can't he just support who he wants to?

Anyway, I dislike the use of 'we' when referring to teams you support...it makes no sense to me.

 

[tooextracool]

3 seamers are never going to be world beaters

you obviously missed australias tour to india in 2004 then?

 

[tooextracool]

Certainly Jones hasn't reached anywhere near the limit of his potential with the bat.

and who is to say that he will reach his potential with the bat? how many times have we seen players not reach their full potential? if Jones bats for a dumba** for an entire year, and cant keep then why should be rewarded for that by retaining him in the side?

 

[honestbharani]

I'm not interested in waiting 10 years for KP to 'prove himself' statistically. Laxman is just an average batsman overall - can anyone seriously contemplate someone like KP being average or worse for the rest of his career? He's succeeded against the best and so he can succeed against anyone else.

Is it just me or anyone else found it really funny?

 

[honestbharani]

The guy averages 43.71, for someone that plays nearly half of their games in India that's decidedly average.

If scoring runs in India is that easy, why are your boys always struggling to put up anything decent over here?

 

[tooextracool]

Mate, I'm asking the question to see whether anyone can suggest any alternatives.

In Aus, we get literally no coverage of the English first-class scene other than match scores.

As such, I could not tell you whether potential back-up players have potential or not.

If it's everyone's opinion that, say, Udal, is unlikely to be able to do the job that Giles' does now or in the future, then I'll grin and bear having Ash hurl the ball at leg-stump for a bit more time.

you've completely neglected 3 things:

1) udal has no future.
2) what would be the point in having udal in the side if he bowled just as well as giles, when has vastly less intl experience
3) that giles is a better batsman

 

[social]

and who is to say that he will reach his potential with the bat? how many times have we seen players not reach their full potential? if Jones bats for a dumba** for an entire year, and cant keep then why should be rewarded for that by retaining him in the side?

Precisely

 

[social]

you've completely neglected 3 things:

1) udal has no future.
2) what would be the point in having udal in the side if he bowled just as well as giles, when has vastly less intl experience
3) that giles is a better batsman

Never having seen Udal play, I cant comment on his ability and therefore cant be said to be neglecting anything about him.

 

[honestbharani]

My point was his great inings don't occur very often.

Great innings, by definition, don't occur often.

 

[honestbharani]

VVS has hardly played on any raging seamers. Almost any pitch Warne bowls on is a raging turner anyway.

And any pitch McGrath bowls on is a green top.

 

[tooextracool]

Never having seen Udal play, I cant comment on his ability and therefore cant be said to be neglecting anything about him.

umm you dont need to see him play to realise that at 35 he has no future. obviously the selectors and almost everyone in england believe that udal isnt better(or at least significantly better) than giles, and i think the domestic bowling record is more than enough proof anyways.

 

[honestbharani]

KP hasn't seen pressure?! Erm, did The Oval not exist in your world?

EDIT: Aimed at Sanz.

And have u watched India - Pak cricket? I have talked to a few players myself at times and they always say that the only "real" pressure they feel is the expectations and feeling from their mates in the dressing room, and in that regard, VVS faced more pressure than KP ever did during that knock.

 

[social]

umm you dont need to see him play to realise that at 35 he has no future. obviously the selectors and almost everyone in england believe that udal isnt better(or at least significantly better) than giles, and i think the domestic bowling record is more than enough proof anyways.

The selectors picked him and another guy as well so they must think they have something to offer

 

[honestbharani]

Saying that, I have racked my brain and I cannot come up with another innings like it under similar circumstances - well, not in the last 40 years anyway. Even Botham's knock gets a 'meh' compared to that incredible innings for the sheer audacity of it.

u guys keep thinking this way and I might add that Sachin's innings in Chennai was the most pressure a player has ever had on him, simply because India has such a big population. The only pressure that seems to matter to most players is from their own dressing room and as such, I don't see how KP had the biggest pressure of all time. At least KP only had to draw it, Sachin had to win it. And what about that 153, the finest ever knock I have seen by BCL? I cannot believe how many Englishmen are allowing their thoughts to be skewed by this one Ashes series. Sure, it was one of the all time great series, but really, if you think Ashes is pressure, juz try to come down to watch an India Pak match, esp. in the 90s with all the political pressure...

 

[honestbharani]

I'm not arguing what innings was better, simply the pressure involved. A team that's got nothing more to lose is under very little pressure, a team that's on the verge of a huge achievement like regaining the Ashes for the first time in nearly 2 decades is under massive pressure.

As for Laxman's innings "against a better bowling attack in worse batting conditions" - rubbish.

Why? Because it is true?

 

[tooextracool]

The selectors picked him and another guy as well so they must think they have something to offer

umm udal was picked not for the future but for the present, because they need someone to bowl with giles in the subcontinent, as well as for injury cover.
and the fact that they have a 35 year old in the side, simply shows how poor the spin bowling options in england are.

 

[honestbharani]

My choice of the playing 11 at Multan would be:

1. Salman Butt
2. Shoaib Malik (out of desperation really)
3. YoYo
4. Inzy
5. Younis
6. Kamal
7. Akmal
8. Shoaib
9. Shabbir
10. Mushtaq
11. Kaneria

The pitch isn't likely to have much in it for a finger spinner. For all internation matches played to date, It has been an absolutely road. It's also interesting to note that the most successful spinners here so far have both been leggies, Kaneria against Bangladesh and Kumble against Pakistan. Saqlain fared horribly against India and Arshad Khan doesn't even share his variety or canniness.

And than you can always ask Shoaib Malik to turn his arm over if you are really desperate for some offies.

Shoaib and Shabbir are easily the two best pacers in Pakistan and should be automatic selections.

Can't see how they can slot Raza in as a middle order batsman. Substituting him for Kamal will be a grave mistake.

Though one can perhaps argue for Afridi's selection in place of Mushtaq/Malik. Not only would it provide Pakistan with an extra half-decent batsman but also with a spinning option pretty different from others of its ilk.

What about opening with Afridi and Malik, and playing 3 seamers with Kaneria as the specialist spinner, with Afridi and Malik providing the back up?