***Official*** England in Pakistan

[honestbharani]

Just to change the subject a little, apparently Alex Loudon bowled Marcus Trescothick with his doosra this morning in the nets. Interesting.

u mean Tresco is going to get out to Malik in the same way?

 

[honestbharani]

Geraint talking to Cricinfo - "This morning, Loudon bowled Marcus Trescothick with what may or may not have been that mysterious doosra"

So, Geraint doesn't know what a "doosra" is? He is in for tough times, if that is the case.

 

[greg]

and who is to say that he will reach his potential with the bat? how many times have we seen players not reach their full potential? if Jones bats for a dumba** for an entire year, and cant keep then why should be rewarded for that by retaining him in the side?

That has no relevance to my comment, whatsover. Social said that Jones (and Giles) should be dropped because they had reached the limit of their potential and been found wanting. I merely pointed out that Jones had not reached the limit of his potential.

I don't even know why this whole debate is continuing anyway seeing as Social is repeatedly asserting that certain players should (or should have been already) dropped despite quite openly admitting he does not have the foggiest idea about alternatives.

 

[greg]

Or it might have been an arm ball or it might have hit a rock or it may not have turned or it may never have happened.

Hopefully, for England's sake, Loudon turns out to be the real deal but until it's performed under match conditions, its largely irrelevant.

Also, interesting take on Jone's position - "only a devastating loss of form" could see him lose his place. Obviously not being able to catch is Jones in acceptable form.

You are taking his comments completely out of context - ie. in the circumstances where the second in line can't catch either. "Devastating loss of form" is referring to his batting.

 

[tooextracool]

That has no relevance to my comment, whatsover. Social said that Jones (and Giles) should be dropped because they had reached the limit of their potential and been found wanting. I merely pointed out that Jones had not reached the limit of his potential.

if that is indeed the case(and im not going to be bothered to look behind to see if that was what he said) then yes, my mistake. nonetheless i'd think that he meant precisely what i just said about jones and really i think theres a decent case for him to be dropped at the moment.

 

[social]

You are taking his comments completely out of context - ie. in the circumstances where the second in line can't catch either. "Devastating loss of form" is referring to his batting.

Makes it even worse if that is the case - if what you are implying is correct, the English management and Jones are satisfied with a sub-standard keeper that averages 30 with the bat.

They should be reminded that averaging 30 with the bat for a keeper is merely acceptable whilst being poor with the gloves is not.

 

[social]

That has no relevance to my comment, whatsover. Social said that Jones (and Giles) should be dropped because they had reached the limit of their potential and been found wanting. I merely pointed out that Jones had not reached the limit of his potential.

I don't even know why this whole debate is continuing anyway seeing as Social is repeatedly asserting that certain players should (or should have been already) dropped despite quite openly admitting he does not have the foggiest idea about alternatives.

Your based in England, you come up with some alternatives.

I simply cannot believe that, in the entire county system (and in any country that formerly made up the Bitish Empire for that matter), there arent 2 guys that have the potential to be top-line test cricketers.

I've simply stated the obvious that both Giles and Jones are sub-standard test cricketers.

 

[luckyeddie]

Your based in England, you come up with some alternatives.

I simply cannot believe that, in the entire county system (and in any country that formerly made up the Bitish Empire for that matter), there arent 2 guys that have the potential to be top-line test cricketers.

I've simply stated the obvious that both Giles and Jones are sub-standard test cricketers.

Perhaps you have just answered your own question.

I reckon you'll ask it again tomorrow, though.

 

[social]

Perhaps you have just answered your own question.

I reckon you'll ask it again tomorrow, though.

Fine.

I'll let Jones and Giles continue to under-perform without comment in the safe knowledge that there's no-one qualified to play for England that could potentially perform a mediocre spinning or keeping all-rounder's role.

 

[luckyeddie]

So, Geraint doesn't know what a "doosra" is? He is in for tough times, if that is the case.

I daresay he wouldn't have been actually fielding to it in the nets.

Anyway, they've sorted out a signalling system now for the doosra.

Alex shouts 'doosra' and bowls it, Geraint misses it and shouts back 'oops', the ball goes for 4 byes.

( )

 

[social]

I daresay he wouldn't have been actually fielding to it in the nets.

Anyway, they've sorted out a signalling system now for the doosra.

Alex shouts 'doosra' and bowls it, Geraint misses it and shouts back 'oops', the ball goes for 4 byes.

( )

That's why I enjoy the majority of your posts.

Whenever I get slightly frustrated at your thinking, you haul me back in with some self-deprecating line.

Cheers.

 

[luckyeddie]

Fine.

I'll let Jones and Giles continue to under-perform without comment in the safe knowledge that there's no-one qualified to play for England that could potentially perform a mediocre spinning or keeping all-rounder's role.

I'm afraid you'll have to.

It took Alex Stewart about 4 years to become a half-decent wicket-keeper, so we might have a couple more years of Geraint saying 'oops, boyo' before he either grows into the job or grows out of it.

 

[luckyeddie]

That's why I enjoy the majority of your posts.

Whenever I get slightly frustrated at your thinking, you haul me back in with some self-deprecating line.

Cheers.

I'm old, grouchy, cantankerous and extremely stubborn, but more than that I'm frustrated that the country that produced Ames, Evans, Knott, JT Murray, Taylor and Russell can't get near another one. As for quality (world class) English spinners, well, the last one was Deadly, and he was a product of uncovered pitches.

The two go hand in hand. Keep exclusively to seamers and you only need a fine first slip with gloves on.

/votes for uncovered pitches

Edit: Thanks for the compliment.

I'll also add in Jimmy Binks and David Bairstow to the wicket-keeper list.

 

[marc71178]

Oh geez... can't he just support who he wants to?

Yes, but only one side - after his constant Australian supporting summer, if he now starts saying that England is his side, it's more than a little wrong.

 

[marc71178]

The selectors picked him and another guy as well so they must think they have something to offer

The selection of Udal and Loudon as 2nd and 3rd spinners just shows how secure Giles' place is.

 

[marc71178]

They should be reminded that averaging 30 with the bat for a keeper is merely acceptable whilst being poor with the gloves is not.

So Gilchrist will now be dropped after the Ashes then

 

[marc71178]

Your based in England, you come up with some alternatives.

He's not the one calling for their heads, so why should he?

I've simply stated the obvious that both Giles and Jones are sub-standard test cricketers.

I can quite easily see Giles taking 35+ wickets this winter - will he still then be sub-standard?

 

[social]

I'm afraid you'll have to.

It took Alex Stewart about 4 years to become a half-decent wicket-keeper, so we might have a couple more years of Geraint saying 'oops, boyo' before he either grows into the job or grows out of it.

Major difference being that Stewart, without being a specialist, was a very good wicket-keeper when handed the gloves (I played with him for a couple of years and can vouch for his ability) AND a good enough batsman to score 100s in each innings of a test vs the Windies at their peak.

Guys like him, Gilchrist, Sanga and Flower are almost impossible to live up to yet the English selectors appear to be falling into the trap of manufacturing a replica.

In Aus, whilst I wholeheartedly support the selection of Watson, it is foolhardy to think that he can be made into a replica of Flintoff as the 2 have vastly different qualities. Watson has to make significant contributions with the bat to make up for weaknesses with the ball. They should expect him to become a top-line batsman and 3/4 seamer and shouldnt put too much pressure on him to become a front-line in both categories.

People need to recognise individual strengths/weaknesses and not place unrealistic expectations on others.

Jones should be regarded as a wk first with his batting as a bonus because he is nowhere near the class of batsman as the others.

Unfortunately, the moderate success that he has had with the bat, coupled with his team's success has been used as a crutch for his pathetic keeping.

 

[social]

I can quite easily see Giles taking 35+ wickets this winter - will he still then be sub-standard?

He may well do so but you have not got any evidence whatsoever on which to base this outrageous claim.

 

[social]

So Gilchrist will now be dropped after the Ashes then

He was on his last chance vs World X1 but reponded with a breathtaking innings and a couple of brilliant catches.

That should see him safe until the second test at least.