***Official*** England in Pakistan

[greg]

Major difference being that Stewart, without being a specialist, was a very good wicket-keeper when handed the gloves (I played with him for a couple of years and can vouch for his ability) AND a good enough batsman to score 100s in each innings of a test vs the Windies at their peak.

Guys like him, Gilchrist, Sanga and Flower are almost impossible to live up to yet the English selectors appear to be falling into the trap of manufacturing a replica.

In Aus, whilst I wholeheartedly support the selection of Watson, it is foolhardy to think that he can be made into a replica of Flintoff as the 2 have vastly different qualities. Watson has to make significant contributions with the bat to make up for weaknesses with the ball. They should expect him to become a top-line batsman and 3/4 seamer and shouldnt put too much pressure on him to become a front-line in both categories.

People need to recognise individual strengths/weaknesses and not place unrealistic expectations on others.

Jones should be regarded as a wk first with his batting as a bonus because he is nowhere near the class of batsman as the others.

Unfortunately, the moderate success that he has had with the bat, coupled with his team's success has been used as a crutch for his pathetic keeping.

Why do you care so much anyway?

 

[luckyeddie]

Major difference being that Stewart, without being a specialist, was a very good wicket-keeper when handed the gloves (I played with him for a couple of years and can vouch for his ability) AND a good enough batsman to score 100s in each innings of a test vs the Windies at their peak.

When Alex was first given the gloves, he was far from being a very good wicket-keeper (especially when it was Jack Russell he took over from).

By 1994, Stewart was adequate as an international keeper - it took him 3 or 4 years to get there, yet there still remained doubts - as your throwaway about the two centuries reminded me.

What was the relevance of quoting Stewart's knocks at Bridgetown? His batting qualities have never been in doubt as far as I was concerned - but Jack Russell had the gloves back for that tour (Stewart had struggled against Australia), allowing Stewart to concentrate on his batting.

 

[marc71178]

He may well do so but you have not got any evidence whatsoever on which to base this outrageous claim.

His previous record on the subcontinent?

 

[marc71178]

Why do you care so much anyway?

Good point, surely he should be ashamed his side lost to a team of 8!

 

[aussie]

Oh geez... can't he just support who he wants to?

word out Dasa....

 

[Tom Halsey]

And have u watched India - Pak cricket? I have talked to a few players myself at times and they always say that the only "real" pressure they feel is the expectations and feeling from their mates in the dressing room, and in that regard, VVS faced more pressure than KP ever did during that knock.

Yes I have watched India - Pakistan cricket, and yes it is very pressurised. But IMO England regaining the Ashes against the old enemy after 18 years of pain is more pressurised.

 

[Armadillo]

For once, I agree with you hals. I mean, I know that Pakistan and India are big rivals (me being born in pakistan and and all) but winning the ashes after 18 years is something really special that doesn't happen very often. Meanwhile ind-pak series' happen every year.

 

[Tom Halsey]

na i dont think the 2001 series was his worst series 98 a bit worst from what i saw, plus i dont understand what you are saying about Tait..

You talked about Tait WRT the 2001 series - he pretty much didn't exist then.

 

[social]

His previous record on the subcontinent?

He's played 5 tests on the sub-continent and taken 23 wickets - some way short of taking 6 wickets a test vs an improved Pakistan and comparable India.

Unfortunately, what those figures dont tell you is that India was where he and Vaughan were accused of bringing the game into disrepute by bowling 2 feet down the leg-side to a packed leg-side field as they had absolutely no idea how to bowl anyone out using conventional methods.

And yes, before you ask, I watched the entire series live and their tactics were indeed pitiful.

 

[Tom Halsey]

They worked though.

 

[social]

Why do you care so much anyway?

Funnily enough, whilst obviously an Aus supporter, I actually enjoy watching good cricket.

For example, I am happy to see, say, Simon Jones being rewarded for inducing an edge from an Aus batsman through a beautiful piece of reverse swing by having his keeper take a regulation catch.

However, nothing ****es me off more than seeing sub-standard cricket rewarded, as is the case of Jones' continued selection in the desperate hope that, in the face of all evidence to date, he will improve.

 

[luckyeddie]

He's played 5 tests on the sub-continent and taken 23 wickets - some way short of taking 6 wickets a test vs an improved Pakistan and comparable India.

Unfortunately, what those figures dont tell you is that India was where he and Vaughan were accused of bringing the game into disrepute by bowling 2 feet down the leg-side to a packed leg-side field as they had absolutely no idea how to bowl anyone out using conventional methods.

And yes, before you ask, I watched the entire series live and their tactics were indeed pitiful.

I don't think you will find that Vaughan has ever been accused of bringing the game into disrepute in either India or Pakistan - Hussain was captain. Vaughan's never played test cricket in Pakistan.

Come on, social. You accuse me of defending everything that's English - at least be right once in a while so I have to make some sort of effort.

 

[social]

I don't think you will find that Vaughan has ever been accused of bringing the game into disrepute in either India or Pakistan - Hussain was captain. Vaughan's never played test cricket in Pakistan.

Come on, social. You accuse me of defending everything that's English - at least be right once in a while so I have to make some sort of effort.

A thousand apologies - should it happen again I'll gladly fall on my sword and watch numerous replays of Giles' bowling in that series.

 

[luckyeddie]

A thousand apologies - should it happen again I'll gladly fall on my sword and watch numerous replays of Giles' bowling in that series.

Honestly, social - that's not necessary.

Just watch a re-run of the Ashes series and say three Hail Joneseys for your penance.

You can skip the first test if you like to save time.

 

[marc71178]

He's played 5 tests on the sub-continent and taken 23 wickets - some way short of taking 6 wickets a test vs an improved Pakistan and comparable India.

Don't know where you get those figures from - he did more than that on his first 2 tours.

Unfortunately, what those figures dont tell you is that India was where he and Vaughan were accused of bringing the game into disrepute by bowling 2 feet down the leg-side to a packed leg-side field as they had absolutely no idea how to bowl anyone out using conventional methods.

And yes, before you ask, I watched the entire series live and their tactics were indeed pitiful.

So they applied a tactic to strangle the batting and frustrate the batsmen.

Since it worked to a degree, how is it pitiful? Oh that's right, it's because it's Giles.

 

[Sanz]

He's played 5 tests on the sub-continent and taken 23 wickets - some way short of taking 6 wickets a test vs an improved Pakistan and comparable India.

Unfortunately, what those figures dont tell you is that India was where he and Vaughan were accused of bringing the game into disrepute by bowling 2 feet down the leg-side to a packed leg-side field as they had absolutely no idea how to bowl anyone out using conventional methods.

And yes, before you ask, I watched the entire series live and their tactics were indeed pitiful.

Actually Giles has played 13 tests in the subcontinent (2 in India, 3 in Pak, 6 in SL, 2 in BD), he has taken a total of 49 test wickets. Except for his series against Pak where he took 17 wickets in 3 test, he has been pretty average.

That said, I do feel that he is highly under-rated as a spinner and has done well for his talent.

 

[social]

Don't know where you get those figures from - he did more than that on his first 2 tours.




So they applied a tactic to strangle the batting and frustrate the batsmen.

Since it worked to a degree, how is it pitiful? Oh that's right, it's because it's Giles.

Ok, so if you expand the definition to include SL and Bangladesh, he has played more tests.

Unfortunately for you, these expanded figures add little to your argument.

As for his tactics, how would you describe a situation where a bowler is playing in favourable conditions but has so little confidence in his own ability that he has to resort to bowling 1.5 ft outside leg stump with a packed leg-side field in the hope that the batsmen will commit suicide.

 

[GladiatrsInBlue]

Tour Match: Patron's XI v England

N Shah gets the scalp of Strauss early in tour opener. Mohad Irshaad (fake copy of Akhtar) going for runs from other end.

 

[Jono]

They worked though.

England didn't win.

They merely reduced India's winning margin.

 

[tooextracool]

England didn't win.

They merely reduced India's winning margin.

you've forgotten 2 things though:
1) england outplayed india in both of the last 2 tests(and if it werent for rain and bad light in the last test, were favorites to win)
2) giles missed the only test that they lost.
also when someone takes 5/67 after bowling over 40 overs, id say it worked.