***Official*** England in Pakistan

[aussie]

3 seamers are never going to be world beaters, no matter how good they are, in India, and saying Warne 'wasn't in great form' is being kind, it was the worst series of his career. Also, when did Tait come into the picture in 2001?!

From just watching him, McGrath was bowling just as well, but not taking wickets - he was accurate, bowling 80 mph, and moving the odd one off the seam - just what he's always done. Just because his figures aren't good doesn't mean he didn't bowl well.

Warne was having the series of his life.

I don't think KP's innings was against the better attack, but it certainly wasn't miles worse.

na i dont think the 2001 series was his worst series 98 a bit worst from what i saw, plus i dont understand what you are saying about Tait.

Secondly i'm not saying McGrath was bolwing well, but he wasn't bowling at his peak nor was he fully fit. Compare how he bowled at lord's to the oval & he was definately missing something at his age he needs a lot of bowling to maintain a good rhythm & he did have that going into the oval test.

 

[greg]

na i dont think the 2001 series was his worst series 98 a bit worst from what i saw, plus i dont understand what you are saying about Tait.

Secondly i'm not saying McGrath was bolwing well, but he wasn't bowling at his peak nor was he fully fit. Compare how he bowled at lord's to the oval & he was definately missing something at his age he needs a lot of bowling to maintain a good rhythm & he did have that going into the oval test.

At the Oval he was missing the Lords slope!

 

[Jono]

3 seamers are never going to be world beaters, no matter how good they are, in India, and saying Warne 'wasn't in great form' is being kind, it was the worst series of his career.

1) Gillespie, McGrath seemed to do mighty fine last time they toured India.
2) Warne may have had a shocking series, also may have had something to do with him playing the best players of spin in the world.

 

[Golaxi]

...

Just to change the subject a little, apparently Alex Loudon bowled Marcus Trescothick with his doosra this morning in the nets. Interesting.

That would be good if he comes through cause we've been crying out for a good spinner and that would be a real shock if we get a good spinning all-rounder.

Giles does a good job for the team but with such a standard the rest of the team sets we could really do with a special spinner aswell. I don't think Giles should be dropped for the sub-continent tour though cause he has shown last time their that on those kind of pitches he can skin through a batting order.

Imagine what a long batting line-up we'll have if these young all-rounders develop.

I think England are wrapping Plunkett and Louden up in cotton wool and will be surprise players of the series. This is based mainly from what i have heard from people who have seen them play first hand.

as much as i love hearing whinning aussies could we please keep this on topic. thanks

 

[Scaly piscine]

1) Gillespie, McGrath seemed to do mighty fine last time they toured India.
2) Warne may have had a shocking series, also may have had something to do with him playing the best players of spin in the world.

Gillespie and McGrath doing 'mighty fine' might also have to do with them playing the best players of spin in the world who don't happen to be that great against pace bowling - same goes for Kasper.

As for Plunkett he's not really an all-rounder, he's a bowler who bats a bit.

 

[Jono]

Gillespie and McGrath doing 'mighty fine' might also have to do with them playing the best players of spin in the world who don't happen to be that great against pace bowling - same goes for Kasper.

Hang on, that just contradicts what he said.

"3 seamers are never going to be world beaters, no matter how good they are, in India"

Well, whether it was 2001, or 2004, India were still not great players of pace were they? In fact, India's batting line-up in 2004 was probably overall a better one (other than Tendulkar missing from the first 2).

In 2004, McGrath and Gillespie destroyed India. They faced Indian batsmen. In 2001, McGrath and Gillespie bowled well, but after the 2nd innings of the 2nd test, were handled fairly well. Both times they were bowling to Indian batsmen,

So umm, your point doesn't exactly work. In fact, it makes no sense at all.

 

[Scaly piscine]

Hang on, that just contradicts what he said.

"3 seamers are never going to be world beaters, no matter how good they are, in India"

Well, whether it was 2001, or 2004, India were still not great players of pace were they? In fact, India's batting line-up in 2004 was probably overall a better one (other than Tendulkar missing from the first 2).

In 2004, McGrath and Gillespie destroyed India. They faced Indian batsmen. In 2001, McGrath and Gillespie bowled well, but after the 2nd innings of the 2nd test, were handled fairly well. Both times they were bowling to Indian batsmen,

So umm, your point doesn't exactly work. In fact, it makes no sense at all.

They don't need to be world beaters tho - they were playing India. And my comment makes as much sense as your "Warne may have had a shocking series, also may have had something to do with him playing the best players of spin in the world." comment seeing as I'm saying virtually the same sort of thing.

 

[open365]

Just to change the subject a little, apparently Alex Loudon bowled Marcus Trescothick with his doosra this morning in the nets. Interesting.

wasn't the quote 'may or may not have been?'?

anyway,still good for loudon to bowl a top class batsman.

 

[Jono]

They don't need to be world beaters tho - they were playing India. And my comment makes as much sense as your "Warne may have had a shocking series, also may have had something to do with him playing the best players of spin in the world." comment seeing as I'm saying virtually the same sort of thing.

Except I never said Warne CAN NOT do well in India.

Halsey said 3 seamers can never be successful in India (when you tour India, you play against India by the way) yet for 1/2 a series in 2001 and a full series in 2004 the seamers were the match-winners for Australia. Obviously they were bowling well (McGrath and Gillespie in 2004 were spectacular). I just don't understand Halsey's point at all, is he saying that the pace bowling attack Laxman faced wasn't as good as KP's because it was in India? If so, look at 2004.

 

[greg]

wasn't the quote 'may or may not have been?'?

anyway,still good for loudon to bowl a top class batsman.

Yes incredible. Bowler bowls batsman in nets shocker.

 

[aussie]

At the Oval he was missing the Lords slope!

so he was still not at his best at the Oval, he wasn't fully fit neither & wasn't in full rhythm either.

Driting off the point here if he could have played at full fitness & in full rhythm in all 5 test, the ashes could well have still been with australia...

 

[luckyeddie]

I think England are wrapping Plunkett and Louden up in cotton wool and will be surprise players of the series. This is based mainly from what i have heard from people who have seen them play first hand.

Liam Plunkett, I reckon, will be very, very special.

I've not seen a vast amount of Louden, but there are some canny cricket watchers who rate him very highly.

 

[luckyeddie]

Driting off the point here if he could have played at full fitness & in full rhythm in all 5 test, the ashes could well have still been with australia...

True.

Get over it.

( )

 

[aussie]

True.

Get over it.

( )

i wont get over it under i see Ponting lifting the ashes at the SCG on January 6, 2007 eddie...

 

[marc71178]

Just because England won both series, surely it doesnt mean that they should stop striving for improvement. If Jones and Giles have reached the limit of their potential (and consistent standards of performances would seem to indicate that they have), consideration must be given to drafting in other players.

So, for the 3rd time, I ask you who should have replaced them.

 

[marc71178]

Giles does a good job for the team but with such a standard the rest of the team sets we could really do with a special spinner aswell. I don't think Giles should be dropped for the sub-continent tour though cause he has shown last time their that on those kind of pitches he can skin through a batting order.

So who is this "special" spinner then?

 

[marc71178]

i wont get over it under i see Ponting lifting the ashes at the SCG on January 6, 2007 eddie...

So kindly give us all a break and stop referring to England as "your team"

You've made your bed, now stick with it.

 

[open365]

So who is this "special" spinner then?

Alex Loudon hopefully

 

[Golaxi]

...

so he was still not at his best at the Oval, he wasn't fully fit neither & wasn't in full rhythm either.

Driting off the point here if he could have played at full fitness & in full rhythm in all 5 test, the ashes could well have still been with australia...

tish tosh. At the Oval Mgrath didn't have his slope. 2 his good length balls were being whacked for 6 by strauss, that's the crucial point where England worked out how to play Warne and Mgrath. He never really goes off form, thats one of the beauties of his bowling.

Thats so arrogant to suggest that anyway, did you ever care to look that if Harmison was on form the full 5 tests you would've been made to look even more embarrased... I would die to see a match where Harmison was on form and didn't rip through any order and im sure you would too now.

After the first test, the rest of the whole series was completely dominated by England. Australia didn't even deserve to still be in it by then.

Anyway this thread is about England touring Pakistan so could you please go and cry somewhere else about losing to a better team?

oh yeah, where did you hear about that doosra ball that bowled tressi in the nets?

 

[Neil Pickup]

Geraint talking to Cricinfo - "This morning, Loudon bowled Marcus Trescothick with what may or may not have been that mysterious doosra"