• Welcome to the Cricket Web forums, one of the biggest forums in the world dedicated to cricket.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Cricket Web community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.

***Official*** England in Pakistan

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
Jono said:
And whilst Sanz was silly enough to bring up KP's Super Series stats when it involved ODIs not tests, which is what the issue revolves around, claiming Super Series selection as a critieria of who is a better player isn't exactly credible.
Against Australia VVS averages better than KP in ODIs and the reason to bring up KP's stats in SS was because he played to get in the pitches in Australia where Laxman has solid record, needless to say that he was miserable there.

So much for KP's brilliance against the top team in the world, VVS averages better than him, vs. Australia, at home and in australia.
 

Sanz

Hall of Fame Member
Tom Halsey said:
Which isn't very surprising considering Pietersen has only played 1 series
Please dont use that excuse. In that case his comparison would be suited with players who are starting their careers and not with players who have played 10 seasons for their country.

If you think KP hasn't played enough then dont compare him to an established batsman like Laxman because everytime you are going to lose the argument you will bring up "well he hasn't played enough".
 

Jono

Virat Kohli (c)
Tom Halsey said:
Which isn't very surprising considering Pietersen has only played 1 series (straight in at the deep end I might add). Just from watching them both I rate Pietersen higher, whatever statistics say - and FWIW I consider a great knock as a matchwinning one when things were a bit dicey (and Laxman's 281 is as good as any). But he doesn't do it very often, that's my point.
Well then I may as well end this discussion here, because we can't get anywhere can we? He's only played 5 tests, and he played a good Ashes series. Not an outstanding Ashes series mind you but a good one. But if we keep going back to "he's only played 1 series" there's no real way of proving he's better. In fact, the only way anyone is saying KP is better is by attempting to denigrate Laxman. Just because Laxman isn't a great doesn't make KP better.

Like I said, you're entitled to your opinion and KP may in fact become a better player than VVS. But I just can't fathom how he is better other than by 'looking' at him. He hasn't batted on the sub-continent and on 4th/5th day ravaging turners, he hasn't batted on ridiculously bouncy pitches... there's just so much more for him to do.
 

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Tom Halsey said:
Which isn't very surprising considering Pietersen has only played 1 series (straight in at the deep end I might add). Just from watching them both I rate Pietersen higher, whatever statistics say - and FWIW I consider a great knock as a matchwinning one when things were a bit dicey (and Laxman's 281 is as good as any). But he doesn't do it very often, that's my point.
That's the thing, from watching KP alone it'd be just ridiculous to say that he won't average more than Laxman. Also if you remove Laxman's series where Australia were without McGrath and Warne his average against the best side in the world (Australia without those two aren't the best side in the world) is merely good.
 

Scaly piscine

Cricket Web: All-Time Legend
Jono said:
Like I said, you're entitled to your opinion and KP may in fact become a better player than VVS. But I just can't fathom how he is better other than by 'looking' at him. He hasn't batted on the sub-continent and on 4th/5th day ravaging turners, he hasn't batted on ridiculously bouncy pitches... there's just so much more for him to do.
VVS has hardly played on any raging seamers. Almost any pitch Warne bowls on is a raging turner anyway.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
GladiatrsInBlue said:
Collingwood eyeing tour whitewash

Collingwood has featured more as a one-day player for England
England's Paul Collingwood believes the team can achieve a 3-0 whitewash in the forthcoming Test series in Pakistan.
"That's our goal," said the Durham all-rounder, who won his third cap in the final Ashes Test at The Oval.
for someone who isnt even a certainity in the starting XI, collingwood should focus on improving his batting, instead of making downright stupid claims.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Scaly piscine said:
KP is better than Laxman - Laxman's record is average plus a once in a lifetime inings.
oh come off it, KP isnt even a proven player at the test match level, and if it werent for those 3 dropped catches he would have come out with a mediocre ashes series.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Tom Halsey said:
I'd rate Strauss and Sehwag evenly, agreed STrauss is definately not 'way better' than Sehwag.
except for the fact that one of those players is extremely ordinary against spin, while the other is one of the best players of spin in the world ATM.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
open365 said:
^he never made any claim.

he said that our goal is to win 3-0.

notice our goal.not my goal.
the goal is to win the series, his role will be to carry the drinks.
making arrogant statements and talking about whitewashes at the start of the series, by someone whos played 3 tests and done nothing special is quite ludicrous.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
open365 said:
i wouldn't say Strauss was extrmely ordinary against spin,just very ordinary against Warne.
you can call him whatever you want. the only half decent spinner strauss has played thus far in his career is shane warne. as of right now we can assume that hes ordinary or at least extremely unproven against spin, while sehwag has proved himself to be a quality player in all conditions.
 

tooextracool

International Coach
Scaly piscine said:
I'm not interested in waiting 10 years for KP to 'prove himself' statistically. Laxman is just an average batsman overall - can anyone seriously contemplate someone like KP being average or worse for the rest of his career? He's succeeded against the best and so he can succeed against anyone else.
talk about the irony of this post. comparing someones record against australia to laxman's and then claiming that a person who suceeds against australia cannot fail.
 

Beleg

International Regular
As far as getting a result is concerned: There's a pretty big chance that all three tests will yeild a win/loss. (You only have to look at the results of the few three tests series that have been played since the turn of the century and you will see a new trend developing) Attitudes concerning draws, run-rates and flat pitches have changed pretty dramatically over the last five years.

People scorn at a draw these days. It does nothing but promote lathargy and dampen the enthusiasm. Except in rare cases, they are more destrctive to the public spirit than a series loss can ever be.

The cricket board knows that in order to pull spectators back to the stadiums (the chances of which are pretty remote really, considering the current problems) and achieve maximum sponsorship, It has to prepare pitches who support a faster paced game.
 

open365

International Vice-Captain
^i suppose,Sehwag is IMO miles better than Straus anyway.

as to the Paul Collingwood issue,he's not being arogant,he's not saying they will win,he's saying that collectively as a team their aim is to win 3-0 and there's nothing wrong in that.
 

luckyeddie

Cricket Web Staff Member
Scaly piscine said:
VVS has hardly played on any raging seamers. Almost any pitch Warne bowls on is a raging turner anyway.
Anything Shane Warne plays on short of a polished glass pitch is a raging turner.
 

PY

International Coach
Sanz said:
Against Australia VVS averages better than KP in ODIs and the reason to bring up KP's stats in SS was because he played to get in the pitches in Australia where Laxman has solid record, needless to say that he was miserable there.

So much for KP's brilliance against the top team in the world, VVS averages better than him, vs. Australia, at home and in australia.
Yeah because everyone (inc Lara, Dravid, Kallis etc) did REALLY REALLY well for the World XI in the Super Series didn't they? That's absolutely nothing to base any kind of analysis on other than the fact that the concept needs a rethink.

You watch KP vs Australia at Bristol in the summer. That's what performing under pressure is all about against the best team in the world. :)
 
Last edited:

tooextracool

International Coach
social said:
And, BTW, he looked decidedly ordinary during the Super Series.
while i agree with your overall sentiment, i wonder what in the world this is supposed to prove, when its in a different form of the game, a form in which KP suceeded not only against australia but against SA and in at least one of the 2 innings he had no choice but to hit out from the very start and not to mention that he was batting with a runner.
 

Top