***Official*** England in Pakistan

[Sanz]

...and you watch VVS @ edens..after following on against the full throttle attack of Mcgrath, Gillespie, Warne. That is called pressure..something KP hasn't seen yet. Let him play couple of seasons all over the world..then he can be compared to VVS.

 

[tooextracool]

The guy averages 43.71, for someone that plays nearly half of their games in India that's decidedly average.

especially when you consider that it remains the same when he plays away from home.

 

[Tom Halsey]

KP hasn't seen pressure?! Erm, did The Oval not exist in your world?

EDIT: Aimed at Sanz.

 

[PY]

...and you watch VVS @ edens..after following on against the full throttle attack of Mcgrath, Gillespie, Warne. That is called pressure..something KP hasn't seen yet. Let him play couple of seasons all over the world..then he can be compared to VVS.

What and batting to save the game and win the Ashes on the final day of the game isn't pressure? And requiring 93 off 12 overs with 6 wickets down isn't pressure?

I don't know how, but before the way you've put your argument I agreed with you that Laxman was way better than KP at the moment but your argument has been all over the place.

 

[tooextracool]

Look at the way KP has played in ODIs as well... players like that just don't end up with an average record.

just curious, have you heard of one michael bevan?
granted that its 'unlikely' for KP to fail from what we've seen, but there is no guarantee that he will succeed.

 

[Pratters]

One flame post creates so much of turbulation.

Bah.

 

[tooextracool]

Which isn't very surprising considering Pietersen has only played 1 series (straight in at the deep end I might add). Just from watching them both I rate Pietersen higher, whatever statistics say - and FWIW I consider a great knock as a matchwinning one when things were a bit dicey (and Laxman's 281 is as good as any). But he doesn't do it very often, that's my point.

because players play great innings every fortnight dont they?

 

[Tom Halsey]

Erm, I didn't say that, last time I checked.

 

[tooextracool]

as to the Paul Collingwood issue,he's not being arogant,he's not saying they will win,he's saying that collectively as a team their aim is to win 3-0 and there's nothing wrong in that.

talking about whitewashes is unnecessary, incase you werent following the ashes. its far more likely for it to come back and bite him in the a** then anything else if you ask me.

 

[tooextracool]

Erm, I didn't say that, last time I checked.

so how many times do good players play great innings then? you'd struggle to find too many good players having played as many match winning innings over their entire career as laxman has.

 

[luckyeddie]

...and you watch VVS @ edens..after following on against the full throttle attack of Mcgrath, Gillespie, Warne. That is called pressure..something KP hasn't seen yet. Let him play couple of seasons all over the world..then he can be compared to VVS.

It's exactly the same rubbish argument that everyone's been making about pretty well every English player for a couple of years now.

Cricket is played by a TEAM, England have one of those, of which Pietersen is an integral part. A side can have all the individual talent in the world, but without some sort of cohesion, the whole is going to be a fraction of the sum of the parts (witness the 'Super Series').

India had a team at the time you are alluding to - a superb one.

 

[Tom Halsey]

talking about whitewashes is unnecessary, incase you werent following the ashes. its far more likely for it to come back and bite him in the a** then anything else if you ask me.

There's a difference between saying you'll win 5-0, and saying you hope you'll win 5-0. Any good team should want to win every game, surely?

 

[Sanz]

What and batting to save the game and win the Ashes on the final day of the game isn't pressure? And requiring 93 off 12 overs with 6 wickets down isn't pressure?

I don't know how, but before the way you've put your argument I agreed with you that Laxman was way better than KP at the moment but your argument has been all over the place.

It is nothing compared to the presure LAX was under..and 281 isn't one of the top innings ever by any batsman for nothng. It was against a better attack, better team,better lead tougher circumstances..KP's inning is miles behind it no matter how look at it.

 

[tooextracool]

There's a difference between saying you'll win 5-0, and saying you hope you'll win 5-0. Any good team should want to win every game, surely?

they're both extremely unrealistic, your goal should always be to play well in every day of every test match, instead of going all out and saying, we're aiming for a whitewash.

 

[luckyeddie]

talking about whitewashes is unnecessary, incase you werent following the ashes. its far more likely for it to come back and bite him in the a** then anything else if you ask me.

It's worth noting that he actually said "That's our goal" and added that they would be "... happy with 1-0 or 2-1".

In comparison, in 2004 McGrath said "I've said we could win 4-0, unless we got a bit of rain, in which case it might be 3-0. But it might be back to 5-0 by next summer."

 

[Tom Halsey]

so how many times do good players play great innings then? you'd struggle to find too many good players having played as many match winning innings over their entire career as laxman has.

I can't think of too many - 281 v the Aussies obiously, he played very very well on the tour of Australia 03/04, and was instrumental in their victory with a 1st Innings century, and played a match-winning 107 against Pakistan in 2004. I may be forgetting some. Another one of Laxman's problems has been consistency - mixes mediocrity with thos math-winning innings a lot of the time.

 

[superkingdave]

As far as getting a result is concerned: There's a pretty big chance that all three tests will yeild a win/loss. (You only have to look at the results of the few three tests series that have been played since the turn of the century and you will see a new trend developing) Attitudes concerning draws, run-rates and flat pitches have changed pretty dramatically over the last five years.

People scorn at a draw these days. It does nothing but promote lathargy and dampen the enthusiasm. Except in rare cases, they are more destrctive to the public spirit than a series loss can ever be.

The cricket board knows that in order to pull spectators back to the stadiums (the chances of which are pretty remote really, considering the current problems) and achieve maximum sponsorship, It has to prepare pitches who support a faster paced game.

yeah agree with you there, read the stats about England's record in Pakistan, but then i saw that since we last toured i think theres been only one draw

 

[tooextracool]

It's worth noting that he actually said "That's our goal" and added that they would be "... happy with 1-0 or 2-1".

In comparison, in 2004 McGrath said "I've said we could win 4-0, unless we got a bit of rain, in which case it might be 3-0. But it might be back to 5-0 by next summer."

oh mcgrath's was far worse yes, but that doesnt make collingwoods claims any less of a joke. at least mcgrath is an all time great and as such he was actually capable of influencing the result of that series, collingwood in all likelyhood wont even get a game, and hence if england do end up losing theres nothing he will be able to do about it. given how the media tends to interpret whitewash predictions or goals i think its safe to say that at the end of the series if england do lose collingwood will have his head torn off, and its a situation i know hed rather not put himself in.

 

[luckyeddie]

oh mcgrath's was far worse yes, but that doesnt make collingwoods claims any less of a joke. at least mcgrath is an all time great and as such he was actually capable of influencing the result of that series, collingwood in all likelyhood wont even get a game, and hence if england do end up losing theres nothing he will be able to do about it. given how the media tends to interpret whitewash predictions or goals i think its safe to say that at the end of the series if england do lose collingwood will have his head torn off, and its a situation i know hed rather not put himself in.

Totally and utterly agree, but I don't hold with the idea that his statement is likely to influence the result one bit.

Equally, I'm touching wood (oo-er, missus) and throwing salt over my shoulder because I don't want to tempt providence either.

 

[Scaly piscine]

As far as I'm concerned there was far more pressure on KP's 150-odd than there was on Laxman's 281. There was an expectation that England would win their first Ashes in the best part of 2 decades during KP's innings and the knowledge that he could be the key to the game and therefore the series. When Laxman hit his 281 there wasn't that much expectation from an Indian perspective, India were 1-0 down and following on 274 runs behind and the best part of 3 days left, India had almost pretty much lost already - so the pressure was off until they got back to a competitive position.