***Official*** England in India

[viktor]

perhaps so, still a cut behind on his prime when he was not only much faster but also a bit more effective.

ok. we could split hairs on that one. The point I was trying to make is that Tendulkar is capable of playing high quality swing bowling. I thnk you would agree, maybe not unequivovally (inspite of your sig.).

 

[viktor]

nope but they way they bowled in the ashes was about as good as waqar and wasim have probably ever bowled. if they carry on in the same vein they will be right up there with them.
pathan though being a world beater with the ball especially based on one inning in swing friendly conditions is a laughable claim really.

Thanks.
The rest is all a) a matter of opinon and b) conjecture. I do agree with you about Pathan not being succesful in "non-swinging" conditions.

 

[marc71178]

as i said earlier, gareth batty v udal maybe equally miserable, but only one of them has time to learn the trade and maybe become international class.

He's done little in the last few years to suggest he can though.

 

[marc71178]

and lets not forget the bright idea of picking collingwood on the tour to SA, kicking him out without having him play a single game, and then replacing him with bell for the series against bangladesh, and for the ashes.

Collingwood went as the closest like for like cover for Flintoff.

Bear in mind that Bell made his debut against the Windies, did nothing wrong and then didn't make the touring party.

 

[marc71178]

yeah sorry about flintoff. i meant to edit the post but sent it accidentally. my point about jones still stands though. he might have the potential, just hasn't shown that he is a world class performer for long enough and in a variety of conditions. In fact, if you wanted to be picky, you could say the same thing about flintoff in the sub-continent.

By the same token - Dhoni outside of Asia?

Pathan against anyone not called Bangladesh or Zimbabwe?

 

[viktor]

By the same token - Dhoni outside of Asia?

Pathan against anyone not called Bangladesh or Zimbabwe?

Absolutely valid point. I, neither said nor implied that either of the pair were. In fact what I am saying is that if just as Pathan and Dhoni haven't been proven outside the subcontinent, Flintoff and Jones haven't proven themselves inside it.

 

[IndianByHeart]

By the same token - Dhoni outside of Asia?

Pathan against anyone not called Bangladesh or Zimbabwe?

Add Pakistan to that list.

 

[aussie]

thats a good one. geraint jones averaging a whole 17 in ODI cricket is better than chris read who averages 28. and gee i wonder who the better wicket keeper is.....



and theres so much evidence that chris read cant bat in ODIs? his List A average is better than both prior and geraint. further he was actually performing at the international level at the time when he got dropped.



i havent, i make no claim to have done so. but how does someone who averages over 30 in seamer friendly conditions in which everyone else on the same side outbowled him make his performances excellent?



split captains has only been a dumb idea when one of the captains has been useless. australia had taylor-waugh and waugh-ponting and they both worked fantastically well.

1. Well its not as if Jones doesn't have the ability to get his average up in ODI's after all he is a better batsman that read..

2. true but it wouldn't have made much sense having 2 keepers in the team in both form of the game.

3. Its not all about stats, fletcher and co clearly saw potential in Plunks bowling & we all saw it in Pakistan

4. True but, england would never do that..

5.

 

[Jono]

By the same token - Dhoni outside of Asia?

Pathan against anyone not called Bangladesh or Zimbabwe?

Yes but believe it or not, this series is in Asia. India is in Asia. So in absolute relevance to this series, Dhoni's prior accomplishments do count.

Simon Jones is unproven in India, for all we know he'll have a great series with the ball. But its no guarantee.

 

[R_D]

Kind of funny how Sub-continent players have to prove themselves outside sub-continent to be considered good players while players from outside sub-continent who struggle their can be considered one of greats of modern area.

 

[marc71178]

Add Pakistan to that list.

Why?

26 wickets @ 47.61 isn't what I'd call a success.

 

[sledger]

1. Well its not as if Jones doesn't have the ability to get his average up in ODI's after all he is a better batsman that read..

i would say that claim is highly questionable, esspecially in ODIs.

 

[Anna]

I know this isn't funny but all of England's spinners are suffering from 'stomach bugs'. Talk about timing

 

[Barney Rubble]

I know this isn't funny but all of England's spinners are suffering from 'stomach bugs'. Talk about timing

*Rues the existence of a swear filter*

(also.... )

 

[alternative]

Just read that four england players have been hit by a stomach bug in S Jones, M Panesar, I Blackwell and S Udal.. and Collingwood will be ruled out of tomorrow's tour match..

 

[silentstriker]

Kind of funny how Sub-continent players have to prove themselves outside sub-continent to be considered good players while players from outside sub-continent who struggle their can be considered one of greats of modern area.

Yup, there is definatly a double standard there.

 

[pug]

Tomorrow's match is going to be interesting. I really want to see Munaf Patel and V Singh bowl along with Sreesanth to show their comparative abilities. Was reading Patel's stats in cricinfo and his average is amazing - 22.61 in first class from 23 matches while Singh's avg is 20.67 in 7 matches. Both Pathan and Sreesanth have their avgs in the 30s though they have played a lot more than these two.

 

[honestbharani]

Show me where Tendulkar smashed Waqar and Wasim in their prime in Test cricket (they hardly met in their primes anyway, so you're just clutching at straws). Regardless that is of little relevance because the taff has gotten Ponting out twice cheaply - and honestly, do you think Sachin *now* is better than Ponting?

They admit it. Waqar and Wasim both said that they were astonished to see a 16 year old boy SMASH them. Anyways, if you think Sachin can't play reverse swing, there is not much I can say, except that you are in a very very small minority.


BTW, I do think Ponting on CURRENT form is better than Sachin, but if Jones can only get Sachin out twice cheaply in this series, I would take the 4 good innings from the master anyday.

 

[honestbharani]

And of course the current SRT is in his prime?

He was saying it as though it was just a matter of Jones playing and swinging the ball, he would automatically get Sachin out. Forget the fact that it is a MILLION times MILLION times tougher than that, but that argument is so ridiculous that I can easily say that IF Sachin moves his feet well, Jones will NEVER get him out.


Swing bowlers are bowling well when they get the ball to swing just like how batters are batting well when they are moving their feet well. IF a bowler is bowling well, there is obviously more of a chance that he will get wickets just like if a batsman is batting well, there is more of a chance that he will get a big score. He was making it seem as though ONLY Jones' form would determine whether he would get Sachin out or not.


PS: I don't think Sachin needs to be IN HIS PRIME to tackle Jones in India anyway.

 

[honestbharani]

wasim and waqar in their primes in 1999? surely you werent watching?

Waqar wasn't, Wasim was.