***Official*** England in India

[Barney Rubble]

so i have to have lived in england for me to realise that a 36 year old bowler with no future is the wrong choice?
ok since you are sensitive about the spinners in England lets get off that topic.
can you explain why chris read is currently not playing ODI cricket for England? or even why matt prior is currently ahead of him in the ranks? no maybe you can explain what liam plunkett(who cant bowl for durham) is doing in the test squad(and please no b/s about duncan fletcher liking his personality or what not, to play test cricket you have to have the required skill first, not the character)? can you explain why players like michael vaughan continue to be part of the ODI outfit despite the fact that tresco has proved to be just as suitable a replacement as captain? and lets not forget the bright idea of picking collingwood on the tour to SA, kicking him out without having him play a single game, and then replacing him with bell for the series against bangladesh, and for the ashes.
come on now,i presume you've lived in england for 3 years, maybe you can explain some of these?

1. Chris Read is not playing for England because Geraint Jones is a better batsman.

2. Matt Prior is ahead of Read because he is also a better batsman, and Duncan Fletcher sees that as important in a wicketkeeper.

3. Plunkett is in the Test squad because he is an outstanding young prospect, who was excellent for Durham last year, as you would know if you watched any English cricket.

4. Michael Vaughan is still part of the ODI team because split captains has been proven in the past to be a dumb idea.

5. Collingwood was picked in SA as BACKUP ALL-ROUNDER. Flintoff didn't get injured, so he wasn't needed.

6. Bell and Pietersen then went ahead of him when Butcher got injured and Thorpe retired because they were picked as BATSMEN.


And as for Udal, the fact that he's crap means the argument isn't that relevant, but his age has nothing to do with how he performs in this series. It might affect his ability to play in future series, but if England had a spinner who was 90 years old and only had a month to live, yet was guaranteed to take 40 wickets in this series, they'd still pick him for this series - it'd be madness not to. Age is relevant only when considering future options. Seeing as England are currently looking for nothing more than a stop-gap replacement for Giles, age is not relevant.

 

[superkingdave]

but Plunkett wasn't excellent for Durham last year, he was not bad but outperformed by others in the same attack

 

[Autobahn]

no spinner would have been an option, I think South Africa employed last time, unless Botha played..

In the last ODI series SA used Botha and Ontong and in the Test series before that Peterson, Ontong and Smith were used.

And i suspect the only reason Boje didn't go was because of the chance of arrest.

 

[viktor]

flintoff and jones have the potential to be at least nearly as good as those 2 provided they remain fit for the majority of the next few years.

may be so..but they aren't now, just the same as pathan and dhoni have the potential to be world beaters but aren't there yet.

 

[viktor]

wasim and waqar in their primes in 1999? surely you werent watching?

may be not in there primes but wasim did bowl really well in that match. and i did watch the match.

 

[UncleTheOne]

may be so..but they aren't now, just the same as pathan and dhoni have the potential to be world beaters but aren't there yet.

Flintoff is already a proven world class all rounder and providing he stays fit Jones will be on of the top top quicks in the world, they may not be quite Waqar and Wasim yet with the ball but are far more developed than Dhoni and Pathan.

 

[Barney Rubble]

but Plunkett wasn't excellent for Durham last year, he was not bad but outperformed by others in the same attack

Okay, maybe not excellent, but he certainly showed he had some talent. You wouldn't say he was totally undeserving of a shot at Test cricket, especially with Tremlett and Jones injured at the time.

 

[Barney Rubble]

Flintoff is already a proven world class all rounder and providing he stays fit Jones will be on of the top top quicks in the world, they may not be quite Waqar and Wasim yet with the ball but are far more developed than Dhoni and Pathan.

Yes. Andrew Flintoff is definitely a better bowler than MS Dhoni.

 

[viktor]

Flintoff is already a proven world class all rounder and providing he stays fit Jones will be on of the top top quicks in the world, they may not be quite Waqar and Wasim yet with the ball but are far more developed than Dhoni and Pathan.

yeah sorry about flintoff. i meant to edit the post but sent it accidentally. my point about jones still stands though. he might have the potential, just hasn't shown that he is a world class performer for long enough and in a variety of conditions. In fact, if you wanted to be picky, you could say the same thing about flintoff in the sub-continent.

 

[viktor]

Yes. Andrew Flintoff is definitely a better bowler than MS Dhoni.

hey, give the guy a decent run...dravid gave him just one over...one over...i mean, c''mon :-P

 

[Langeveldt]

In the last ODI series SA used Botha and Ontong and in the Test series before that Peterson, Ontong and Smith were used.

And i suspect the only reason Boje didn't go was because of the chance of arrest.

Another instance where an all pace attack would have have benifited a team..

Conditions don't warrant picking players as mediocre as Peterson and Ontong..

 

[tooextracool]

Again,name the alternatives and i'll listen.
Because he's the test captain,doen't take a genius to work that one out,yes,i wish he wasn't in the side but tbh i don't relaly care about ODIs.

what does being the test captain have to do with being the ODI captain? didnt the aussies get along just fine for years having a different captain in both forms of the game?

Bell>Collingwood

should have been on the tour to SA then should he have not? top class experience might have helped him develop before the ashes instead of having him make some schoolboy errors in the ashes.

And what's with all the questions?i was talking about the spinners,i don't have any problems with you criticising the selectors,but back it up,say the alternatives,and why they're a better choice.

i would be able to name you several alternatives for some of those questions, were i actually able to watch county cricket.
AFAIC i have no problem with the selectors trying someone new at the international level, even if he hasnt had a perfect first class record, as long as he has some future, unlike shaun udal.

 

[tooextracool]

1. Chris Read is not playing for England because Geraint Jones is a better batsman.

thats a good one. geraint jones averaging a whole 17 in ODI cricket is better than chris read who averages 28. and gee i wonder who the better wicket keeper is.....

2. Matt Prior is ahead of Read because he is also a better batsman, and Duncan Fletcher sees that as important in a wicketkeeper.

and theres so much evidence that chris read cant bat in ODIs? his List A average is better than both prior and geraint. further he was actually performing at the international level at the time when he got dropped.

3. Plunkett is in the Test squad because he is an outstanding young prospect, who was excellent for Durham last year, as you would know if you watched any English cricket.

i havent, i make no claim to have done so. but how does someone who averages over 30 in seamer friendly conditions in which everyone else on the same side outbowled him make his performances excellent?

4. Michael Vaughan is still part of the ODI team because split captains has been proven in the past to be a dumb idea.

split captains has only been a dumb idea when one of the captains has been useless. australia had taylor-waugh and waugh-ponting and they both worked fantastically well.

5. Collingwood was picked in SA as BACKUP ALL-ROUNDER. Flintoff didn't get injured, so he wasn't needed.
6. Bell and Pietersen then went ahead of him when Butcher got injured and Thorpe retired because they were picked as BATSMEN

interesting, do all back up all rounders(collingwood) have significantly worse FC bowling and batting averages than the back up batsmen(bell)?

And as for Udal, the fact that he's crap means the argument isn't that relevant, but his age has nothing to do with how he performs in this series. It might affect his ability to play in future series, but if England had a spinner who was 90 years old and only had a month to live, yet was guaranteed to take 40 wickets in this series, they'd still pick him for this series - it'd be madness not to. Age is relevant only when considering future options. Seeing as England are currently looking for nothing more than a stop-gap replacement for Giles, age is not relevant.

udal was picked in the series in pakistan, not as a replacement for giles but as support for him. and i dont know about you, but was udal ever mind blowingly effective in FC cricket or was he merely as good as they keedys and the battys in FC cricket?

 

[tooextracool]

may be so..but they aren't now, just the same as pathan and dhoni have the potential to be world beaters but aren't there yet.

nope but they way they bowled in the ashes was about as good as waqar and wasim have probably ever bowled. if they carry on in the same vein they will be right up there with them.
pathan though being a world beater with the ball especially based on one inning in swing friendly conditions is a laughable claim really.

 

[tooextracool]

may be not in there primes but wasim did bowl really well in that match. and i did watch the match.

perhaps so, still a cut behind on his prime when he was not only much faster but also a bit more effective.

 

[Barney Rubble]

thats a good one. geraint jones averaging a whole 17 in ODI cricket is better than chris read who averages 28. and gee i wonder who the better wicket keeper is.....



and theres so much evidence that chris read cant bat in ODIs? his List A average is better than both prior and geraint. further he was actually performing at the international level at the time when he got dropped.



i havent, i make no claim to have done so. but how does someone who averages over 30 in seamer friendly conditions in which everyone else on the same side outbowled him make his performances excellent?



split captains has only been a dumb idea when one of the captains has been useless. australia had taylor-waugh and waugh-ponting and they both worked fantastically well.



interesting, do all back up all rounders(collingwood) have significantly worse FC bowling and batting averages than the back up batsmen(bell)?



udal was picked in the series in pakistan, not as a replacement for giles but as support for him. and i dont know about you, but was udal ever mind blowingly effective in FC cricket or was he merely as good as they keedys and the battys in FC cricket?

Well if you're going to twist the reality of events to suit your own arguments then there's not really much point in me debating with you.

 

[chalky]

Any news on the TV rights for the series yet? The closer it gets to the start of the test series the more it looks like PPV & an extra £50 to fork out.

 

[superkingdave]

Well if you're going to twist the reality of events to suit your own arguments then there's not really much point in me debating with you.

what do you mean, i can't see much twisting the reality of events there.


FWIW the points about read in ODI cricket and plunkett i agree with, split captains i think will inevitably happen after the WC unless vaughan gives up the test captaincy. I didn't really agree with teh Collingwood over bell selection for SA precisley because i don't think Collingwood justifies the tag 'reserve all-rounder' and probably wouldn't have taken Udal to Pakistan

 

[superkingdave]

Any news on the TV rights for the series yet? The closer it gets to the start of the test series the more it looks like PPV & an extra £50 to fork out.

well i don't know how reliable this source is but it seems to suggest its confirmed it will be PPV

http://www.indiantelevision.com/headlines/y2k6/feb/feb256.htm


" The terms of the deal that Nimbus has signed for the UK territory, according to sources close to the developments, are as follows: Live telecast of the current series will be available only on PPV, but England's next tour to India in 2008, which also involves three Tests and seven ODIs, will be on Channel 4. The remaining tours to India (by the other Test playing nations) will be broadcast on Sony Entertainment Television and Pakistan's Geo TV in the UK. "

 

[Scaly piscine]

well i don't know how reliable this source is but it seems to suggest its confirmed it will be PPV

http://www.indiantelevision.com/headlines/y2k6/feb/feb256.htm


" The terms of the deal that Nimbus has signed for the UK territory, according to sources close to the developments, are as follows: Live telecast of the current series will be available only on PPV, but England's next tour to India in 2008, which also involves three Tests and seven ODIs, will be on Channel 4. The remaining tours to India (by the other Test playing nations) will be broadcast on Sony Entertainment Television and Pakistan's Geo TV in the UK. "

Hmm seems a bit dubious when it is saying the 2008 tour will be on Channel 4.