***Official*** England in India

[social]

Tendulkar's in the same position David Beckham is, but English socey fans have to put up with the fact he isn't going to be dropped, so you should do the same with Sachin.

Criticise Sachin's form but never compare him to Beckham

Sachin has been about the best in his sport for 15 years

Beckham's a glorified marketing machine.

 

[kvemuri]

And if he fails in them, does he then warrant one more series, just in case?

Well, for me at least that would make it clear that he has run out of gas, I wouldn't even argue against it at that point. I would give him to be honest 2 more years. End of 2007. It would put him at 34/35 and thats when i would go well he has had his run.

 

[marc71178]

So what have the last 2 years or so shown then?

 

[kvemuri]

So what have the last 2 years or so shown then?

He hasn''t been the Tendulkar of 2003 or younder years, but he hasn't been as bad either. I am listing his innings by innings summary from 2004 Pak tour onwards

Vs Pak 2004

Ist test - 194*
2nd test - 2 and 8
3rd test - 1

Vs Aus 2004

3rd test - 4 and 2
4th test - 5 and 55

Vs SA 2004

1st test - 3
2nd test - 20 and 32*

Vs Bangla 2004

1st test - 248
2nd test - 36

Vs Pak 2004

1st test - 94 and DNB
2nd test - 52 and 52
3rd test - 41 and 16

Vs SLK 2005

1st test - 22
2nd test - 109 and 16
3rd test - 23 and 19

Vs Pak 2005/06

2nd test - 14
3rd test - 23 and 26

Vs Eng 2006

1st test - 16 and 28*
2nd test - 4

yes its not the average of the 2003 or before Sachin Tendulkar but to me these scores, except the single digit one of course, tell that he is getting in and not converting. I see that more as a mental block that he can get over as quickly as he got into rather than his tank is empty. Granted this might be the longest leanest patch in the history for any batsman but I have hope that he can get over it. I don't think he will ever be that master blaster of the 90s but i still believe that he is a capable middle order batsmen with at least an year or 2 of cricket in him. You might say its wishful thiniking, but i do have hope for him.

 

[Zinzan]

Darell Hair makes a big mistake.. Wish gilli was batting there, he would have walked..

maybe if Australia were 500/6 Gilly might walk.........don't fool yourself......if it was tight he wouldn't walk

 

[Anil]

When he starts hopping like a bunny rabbit to Shane Bond/Brett Lee's darts, when he starts publicly complaining that people in the team are giving him a hard time, basically when he starts behaving like a Prima Donna.

I think he atleast warrants couple of more series to be pursued with in the long form of game. Granted his lack of form has been disconcerting but this man has been the face of the team for more than a decade, his exploits in the 90s (at time when our great bowling attack consisted of bowlers like Srinath, Prasad, Mohanty, Harvinder Singh, Bantu Singh, Prashanth Vaidya, Raju etc) single handedly won many games.

In some cases even his exploits weren't enough to win games, cause after he had done the hard yards of taking India close to victory others would fall like 9 pins. The opponents knew he was the prize wkt, he knew he was the prize wkt and the worse kept secret was he knew the opponents knew he was the prize wkt.

How many times did we lose a game once he fell, how many times we lost a game after he had done all the hard work. The funny part of being Sachin Ramesh Tendulkar is, he is damned if plays well (the mantra then is "Idiot he should've been there all the way, how does he think the other 10 can win the game for us") and damned if he doesn't (mantra then is "Choker always fails when we need him the most"). The fault never lies in the other 10 who play with him it always lies with him.

Heck the man carried expectations of an entire nation for a decade and odd and delivered as much as he could in both formats of the game. Heck it was less than 3 years ago he single handedly propelled us to the 2003 WC finals. For the decade and odd of service that he has given to his team, I am going to argue he is the ONLY player who deserves such a level of consideration.

i never damned him when his great performances failed to win us games because of inept team mates, i never damned him for his human failures.....and i am not damning him now...but it is also a fact that cricket is a team game and any player who takes pride in his performance should feel the pressure of non-performance and not being able to contribute, a cricketing great like sachin should feel it more than most.....i repeat...i saw how kapil dev faded out, a pale shadow of his former self, i just don't wish the same on tendulkar, that's all....

 

[Pratters]

You're not the first one to be treated in that way Liam...

Umm how do you get involved in this? Same way like when I talked when you where in one of your Scaly Piscine bashings and you didn't like it? I see.

 

[Pratters]

That's irrelevant.

What happened 10 years ago has no bearing on current form.

I am not saying any thing about it having a bearing on current form am I? A player is bound to go through such a period in a long career. That is all.

 

[Pratters]

How many players have a run that long without being dropped then?

Kapil Dev around the same in terms of years. One would imagine fast bowlers toil more. Matches Tendulkar has played not many have come close but that has been because of him starting earlier than others and more cricket player over his time.

 

[adharcric]

What are the reports on the condition of the Wankhede Pitch? A Pathan-Munaf-Sreesanth pace trio would be dangerous and the team management might not be too afraid of the 5-bowler strategy after our tailenders seized the advantage with the bat in the Mohali first innings.

W Jaffer
V Sehwag
R Dravid*
S Tendulkar
Y Singh
MS Dhoni+
I Pathan (new-ball)
A Kumble
H Singh
M Patel
S Sreesanth (new-ball)

 

[SJS]

The best thing that happened for India at Mohali was Munaf Patel.

The second best was Sehwag's getting runs.

The third best was India winning the test.

I am not saying this because I am not absolutely delighted at the test win but because India should have been CLEAR favourites to win against this English side. Take away Rahul Dravid(Michael Vaughan of India), Anil Kumble(Giles), Sehwag (Trescothic) and one of the other main bowlers(Simon Jones) and then pit them against this England side.

I think England have nothing to be ashamed of. Yes their batsmen should have carried on after getting a start but two of their best for long innings are missing.

Great for India but well played England for making a close series of an unequal one.

 

[honestbharani]

Regarding the Tendulkar issue.... I think one thing we all need to understand is that ODI and test form SEEM to be completely different things these days. I remember Sehwag belting century after century in Tests and struggling to get past 30 in ODIs. IT is the reverse with Sachin. OVer the past two years, he has shown glimpses of his former self now and then. Had that not been the case, I am sure I would want him to be dropped from the test side. But he has had good knocks in between. So, I would give him till the RSA tour really... IF he keeps failing till that tour, then he should be dropped from the test squad.


PS: India only have 2 test series after this one before the WC 2007.... So, if he doesn't perform in the next two series, I Think he should bow out after the WC really, atleast from test cricket.

 

[adharcric]

England have definitely performed better than expected without four regulars in the team. (SJS: on your little thought) Now, Dravid is way better than Vaughan, Kumble is way better than Giles, Sehwag is at least on par with Trescothick and well, I won't say Munaf is as good as Simon Jones ... only the absence of Jones really might have made a big difference, seeing as Cook did as much as Trescothick would've been expected to, Panesar impressed enough to not feel the absence of Giles and Vaughan's ability against spin wouldn't matter too much since the spinners didn't even play such a big role (Munaf picked up the Pietersens and Flintoffs). Giles' lower-order runs might've helped though.

 

[adharcric]

Regarding the Tendulkar issue.... I think one thing we all need to understand is that ODI and test form SEEM to be completely different things these days. I remember Sehwag belting century after century in Tests and struggling to get past 30 in ODIs. IT is the reverse with Sachin. OVer the past two years, he has shown glimpses of his former self now and then. Had that not been the case, I am sure I would want him to be dropped from the test side. But he has had good knocks in between. So, I would give him till the RSA tour really... IF he keeps failing till that tour, then he should be dropped from the test squad.


PS: India only have 2 test series after this one before the WC 2007.... So, if he doesn't perform in the next two series, I Think he should bow out after the WC really, atleast from test cricket.

Same thoughts here. Give the man a run through the World Cup because he's still showing the ability, just not getting the scores. At that point, he and the management can assess his future in ODIs and tests.

 

[SJS]

England have definitely performed better than expected without four regulars in the team. Now, Dravid is way better than Vaughan, Kumble is way better than Giles, Sehwag is at least on par with Trescothick and well, I won't say Munaf is as good as Simon Jones ... only the absence of Jones really might have made a big difference, seeing as Cook did as much as Trescothick would've been expected to, Panesar impressed enough to not feel the absence of Giles and Vaughan's ability against spin wouldn't matter too much since the spinners didn't even play such a big role (Munaf picked up the Pietersens and Flintoffs).

I was not comparing the protoganists but rather putting them by way of their importance to the respective teams.

- Dravid/Vaughan : Best batsmen in the two sides (due regards to Sachin) and captains

- Trescothic/Sehwag : First choice openers

- Kumble/Giles : First choice spinners

- Jones/Any Indian bowler : Part of main attack

Any side, including India would be greatly handicapped losing best batsman, best opener, numbwer one spinner and another main bowler. Thats all I am saying. The Indian counterparts were named just to highlight the extent of England's 'loss' in terms of importnace of men missing.

 

[SJS]

I doubt if India will go into the mext match with five bowlers. I think they will bring back a batsman - probably Laxman.

But I am terribly disappointed at their not using this opportunity not to try out Powar. He is BLOODY good and if he isnt tried now very soon they will start using his age against him and we will not have a choice between Harbhajan and another finger spinner that we desperately need today.

This 'policy' of not changing a winning squad can be damaging if it is made sacrocanct.

 

[C_C]

You're not the first one to be treated in that way Liam...

You are beginning to remind me of the resident Aunt Jemima, who hasnt been laid since her teens and who's sole job is to shoot a few snide remarks, make assinine observations, do a bit of 'backpatting for the friends and jibing at others without reading a toss' and scoot off to stir another pot.

 

[honestbharani]

I was not comparing the protoganists but rather putting them by way of their importance to the respective teams.

- Dravid/Vaughan : Best batsmen in the two sides (due regards to Sachin) and captains

- Trescothic/Sehwag : First choice openers

- Kumble/Giles : First choice spinners

- Jones/Any Indian bowler : Part of main attack

Any side, including India would be greatly handicapped losing best batsman, best opener, numbwer one spinner and another main bowler. Thats all I am saying. The Indian counterparts were named just to highlight the extent of England's 'loss' in terms of importnace of men missing.

I would be hard pressed to call Vaughan their best batter seeing his form recently. He LOOKS like he can only make a decent score if he gets a life or two.

 

[SJS]

I would be hard pressed to call Vaughan their best batter seeing his form recently. He LOOKS like he can only make a decent score if he gets a life or two.

Calling him second best or third best and then using Tendulkar, Sehwag or Yuvraj for comaprison still wouldnt change the point I was making, would it ?

And his being captain made the comparison with Dravid slightly better but take your pick

 

[honestbharani]

Calling him second best or third best and then using Tendulkar, Sehwag or Yuvraj for comaprison still wouldnt change the point I was making, would it ?

And his being captain made the comparison with Dravid slightly better but take your pick

yeah, I agree it was a big loss as far as his captaincy goes, but really, I still think that Collingwood and Bell have actually done better than what he might have done. Dodgy knee and all, he has looked rather laborious at the crease in recent times.